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Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.

GVC said:
In my experience, the more dogmatic someone is, the less likely they are to step out of their comfort zone. It's far easier to allow yourself to be fed "eternal truth" and "everlasting salvation" than to try to figure things out, with the knowledge that you have a very short amount of time to do so.
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Do you even know me enough to claim I am being spoon fed something and that I don't take the time to think or figure things out for myself.
I passed on some of what I personally know, as a part of a conversation.
Thank you for judging who I am though.
By the way, how do you know it's easier if you don't "allow yourself to be fed eternal truth and everlasting salvation" yourself.
 
GVC said:
Oh my.
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In anything you are doing, doubt will not help you succeed in that thing.
Once you decide to do something, doubt will only make that thing more difficult.
For someone to claims to be thoughtful about things, you seem to take the "easy road" in assuming the worst about people.
 
Gameface said:
In this I find my greatest objection to faith. To me, at it's foundation faith is an act of denying and avoiding reality. You must first accept the fact that reality is not really real by accepting a supernatural and intelligent role in creating reality. That essentially means that the same supernatural entity (God) can change reality at any moment. That it is impossible to really know anything, because after all, you cannot know the mind of God. You must also accept that your perception, your ability to think and reason based on actual reality, is flawed. You have to already accept that God can be real before you can find out that He is real. Then, the way in which you find out that God is real is just that you know, or have a feeling in your bosom, or some other self-reassuring sensation that allows you not to actually know, but to feel good about your effort to actively deceive yourself and evade reality.

So in essence faith is the rejection of one's own mind. Rejection that the way in which we, as intelligent beings, interact with the world should be the result of thinking and reasoning. Rejection of our individual responsibility to understand this world as it is, rather than the way we wish, hope or desire that it is.

Anyone can convince them self of any fantasy they desire if they try hard enough and actively evade the facts that contradict their fantasy.

That's my take, anyway.
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My personal answer to this possibility is that faith is actually an exercise of our mind, something akin to imagination perhaps, and is something that helps overall in our thinking and reasoning. If we only accept fact/logic as we have already defined it, we are limiting the universe of possibilities. . . . . and --- maybe---will simply not be using all our intellectual tools and may thus fail to ever cross the threshold to understand things we cannot prove conclusively with our present skills.

Axiomatic to my "answer" is a type of "faith" that is not simply "conformity to orthodox religious dogma".
 
JazzSpazz said:
In anything you are doing, doubt will not help you succeed in that thing.
Once you decide to do something, doubt will only make that thing more difficult.
For someone to claims to be thoughtful about things, you seem to take the "easy road" in assuming the worst about people.
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I would agree with your assessment if you are speaking of "doubt" as something akin to lack of determination, confusion, uncertainty inherent in the will to achieve a desired end. . . . . but not if we are discussing doubt as being a reasoned calculation or estimate of our lack of understanding that we realize will impact our plans. . . . . The second class of doubt is essential to actually solving the problems we face.
 
JazzSpazz said:
Do you even know me enough to claim I am being spoon fed something and that I don't take the time to think or figure things out for myself.
I passed on some of what I personally know, as a part of a conversation.
Thank you for judging who I am though.
By the way, how do you know it's easier if you don't "allow yourself to be fed eternal truth and everlasting salvation" yourself.
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I said nothing about you personally. Feel free to re-read my post.

As for your question (it looks like a question, anyway), I was Mormon, received my endowment, served an honorable mission, attended BYU, worked at the MTC.

Who's judging?
 
JazzSpazz said:
In anything you are doing, doubt will not help you succeed in that thing.
Once you decide to do something, doubt will only make that thing more difficult.
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Not if you're trying to learn. In that endeavor, doubt is indispensable.
 
GVC said:
I said nothing about you personally. Feel free to re-read my post.

As for your question (it looks like a question, anyway), I was Mormon, received my endowment, served an honorable mission, attended BYU, worked at the MTC.

Who's judging?
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Probably could have helped if you lived outside the bubble while within the church.
 
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2010-05-13-files_troll_2.jpg
 
LogGrad98 said:
JazzSpazz said:
LogGrad98 said:
Stickler said:
I have honestly never met a Mormon who doesn't believe in dinosaurs. :) That strikes me as being super unusual!
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Everyone should. We get to watch one coach the Jazz every single game.
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A dinosaur, or a swearing mormon that believes in dinosaurs?

I'm confused.
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Could be both. A swearing momon dinosaur that doesn't believe in dunks.
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I honestly hope somewhere, somehow D-Will is reading this thread. It'd be good for him to know where his simple expression of thought has led.


Big Smile :-)

Go Jazz.
 
GVC said:
In my experience, the more dogmatic someone is, the less likely they are to step out of their comfort zone. It's far easier to allow yourself to be fed "eternal truth" and "everlasting salvation" than to try to figure things out, with the knowledge that you have a very short amount of time to do so.
Click to expand...

JazzSpazz said:
Do you even know me enough to claim I am being spoon fed something and that I don't take the time to think or figure things out for myself.
I passed on some of what I personally know, as a part of a conversation.
Thank you for judging who I am though.
By the way, how do you know it's easier if you don't "allow yourself to be fed eternal truth and everlasting salvation" yourself.
Click to expand...

GVC said:
I said nothing about you personally. Feel free to re-read my post.

As for your question (it looks like a question, anyway), I was Mormon, received my endowment, served an honorable mission, attended BYU, worked at the MTC.

Who's judging?
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In your first post you quoted me, and then said what you said. To me that is you responding to something I said, and it appeared that you directing your words towards me. That would be why I figured you were judging who I am, and implying I have been spoon fed the things I have been saying because I blindly believe in some dogma instead of thinking about it during my short life.

It may seem strange to you, but I have spent many, many hours thinking, and studying, and proving the ideas I follow. There may be some people out there in the LDS faith, or any faith that just do what they are told, and believe what they are told to believe. That is the easy way, and gets that person nowhere. I will never just spout something someone told me if I have not proved out those thoughts and ideas first, and feel comfortable with them.

Was I wrong to think you were adressing me with your comments?
Also, thank you for being more calm in your response than I was. I did have a bit of an attitude.... it happens.
 
GVC said:
Not if you're trying to learn. In that endeavor, doubt is indispensable.
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To me there is a definite difference between questioning to learn, and doubt.
Doubt will keep you where you are, and inhibit advancemnt and learning.
Questions, and questioning will help in the learning process, as long as the questions are leading to answers. Questions without seeking the answers is as useless as doubt.

Thats my take, and why I said doubt is not our friend.

We may be saying the same thing with slightly different understandings of the word.
 
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