Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.

[LogGrad98]

Does anyone know if we look the same after we die? I kind of want to keep my pretty face after I die. Thanks.

The one in your sig?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

You don't need to be sorry. My first response was snarky. Also, thank you for clarifying.

So, if faith is hoping for things that are unseen, but true, by what standard are these hypothetical things true? If they are true, you don't need hope or faith.

You have to start with 1 thing, and move on from there.
1- Does God exist.

I made some posts about finding out for yourself if something is true earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat it all.
Re-read the posts and if you still have questions we can go from there.

I say God does exist, and he will answer sincere requests. I also say God is the one that will answer for us what is True, and what is not.... if we are wondering what to base our Faith on. *Just something I learned, all faith will be based on, or come back to Jesus Christ.

 

[porqsmith]

You have to start with 1 thing, and move on from there.
1- Does God exist.

I made some posts about finding out for yourself if something is true earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat it all.
Re-read the posts and if you still have questions we can go from there.

I say God does exist, and he will answer sincere requests. I also say God is the one that will answer for us what is True, and what is not.... if we are wondering what to base our Faith on. *Just something I learned, all faith will be based on, or come back to Jesus Christ.

I read your post responding to Vinylone's question about why we should seek to determine whether God exists. I'm not sure it's very relevant to my questions, though I'd be happy to discuss it if you'd like.

As for the rest:

Isn't truth objective?

The way I see it, belief in God has to be subjective, as He will not answer you and I at the same time in a manner that we both recognize. So, he cannot answer for us what is true, as his answers are always subjective.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Truth is objective. Belief in a deity is subjective, correct.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I read your post responding to Vinylone's question about why we should seek to determine whether God exists. I'm not sure it's very relevant to my questions, though I'd be happy to discuss it if you'd like.

As for the rest:

Isn't truth objective?

The way I see it, belief in God has to be subjective, as He will not answer you and I at the same time in a manner that we both recognize. So, he cannot answer for us what is true, as his answers are always subjective.

If you say so, but you should take that argument up with Him.
When you look Him in the eye and try that argument it may not go over so well.
All I can do is tell you what I have learned, and believe to be true, and have asked God, and received an answer about.

By the way, Truth is not subjective.
Once you know a Truth, and you know it in your bones so to speak, there is no subjective to it.

Is gravity subjective? Nope, it is truth. Can you defy gravity for a bit... sure.
Can you get away from gravity, sure... but in getting away from gravity, you also are away from everything that gives you life.

I don't want to argue... to the contrary.... what I say is try it.
Try asking God if he exists, with the intent to do something about it.
If you are serious, and keep at it, and are honest with yourself and God.... you will get an answer.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Truth is objective. Belief in a deity is subjective, correct.

Truth is truth.
Your understanding of Truth is objective.
Truth will not change, you will.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Oh my god.

 

[NUMBERICA]

If it's true, it has evidence. It's proven. That's it. If you people want to use arguments that fly like a butterfly and sting like a butterfly, then... do your thing I guess.

 

[NUMBERICA]

In the meantime, continue pretending that your views on homosexuality aren't significantly informed by your belief in Santa Claus in the sky.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

If it's true, it has evidence. It's proven. That's it. If you people want to use arguments that fly like a butterfly and sting like a butterfly, then... do your thing I guess.

How about this.
I don't agree with you that truth is subjective.
Let's agree to disagree....... this point has nothing to do with anyone pretending they view homosexuality with Santa Claus in the sky, so lets stick to the point.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Oh my god.

Love the pic... that thing is freaky.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How about this.
I don't agree with you that truth is subjective.

Truth is objective.

Yes, how about that.

 

[porqsmith]

If you say so, but you should take that argument up with Him.
When you look Him in the eye and try that argument it may not go over so well.
All I can do is tell you what I have learned, and believe to be true, and have asked God, and received an answer about.

By the way, Truth is not subjective.
Once you know a Truth, and you know it in your bones so to speak, there is no subjective to it.

Is gravity subjective? Nope, it is truth. Can you defy gravity for a bit... sure.
Can you get away from gravity, sure... but in getting away from gravity, you also are away from everything that gives you life.

I don't want to argue... to the contrary.... what I say is try it.
Try asking God if he exists, with the intent to do something about it.
If you are serious, and keep at it, and are honest with yourself and God.... you will get an answer.

After my initial snarkiness, I've tried to understand your points and respond honestly. Please show me the same courtesy.

"By the way, Truth is not subjective."
I didn't say it was. I said that it is objective. You are arguing that truth is subjective. Bizarrely, your argument for this seems to be that "once you know [it]...there is no subjective to it." It makes me wonder whether you actually know what objectivity and subjectivity are.

"I don't want to argue"
That's all fine and good, as you're really not very good at it. I responded because your original post invited response. If you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'd suggest you avoid declaring them publicly.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

After my initial snarkiness, I've tried to understand your points and respond honestly. Please show me the same courtesy.

"By the way, Truth is not subjective."
I didn't say it was. I said that it is objective. You are arguing that truth is subjective. Bizarrely, your argument for this seems to be that "once you know [it]...there is no subjective to it." It makes me wonder whether you actually know what objectivity and subjectivity are.

"I don't want to argue"
That's all fine and good, as you're really not very good at it. I responded because your original post invited response. If you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'd suggest you avoid declaring them publicly.

You and Numberica are right, and I am failing to multi-task at the moment.
In my haste I have totally messed up and mixed up objective and subjective, and created something out of nothing.
I don't mean to be short or rude in my answers, and again I apologize.
I will have to check back again later and post when I can focus and speak(type) instead of hastily posting and making a mess.

All I was trying to say is that Truth is Truth, and it is only our understanding of it that changes or is different. Truth is objective, if I even understand the word correctly.

Thanks for being patient with me.

 

[Jerry Lundegaard]

Whatever helps D-Will win us a title! That's what I say. He can do it in whoever's glory he pleases. In the end, a championship will be glorious for all.

In the meantime, this thread should be stickied so the Big Man Up Stairs doesn't have to scroll through countless past pages or utilize a frustrating search function.

For the prophecy it's worth, your opinion is that I am defined by being your self

 

[porqsmith]

You and Numberica are right, and I am failing to multi-task at the moment.
In my haste I have totally messed up and mixed up objective and subjective, and created something out of nothing.
I don't mean to be short or rude in my answers, and again I apologize.
I will have to check back again later and post when I can focus and speak(type) instead of hastily posting and making a mess.

All I was trying to say is that Truth is Truth, and it is only our understanding of it that changes or is different. Truth is objective, if I even understand the word correctly.

Thanks for being patient with me.

Understood.

 

[m3at]

Whatever helps D-Will win us a title!

When DWill goes to the Lakers, will he win us a title then?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

"I don't want to argue"
That's all fine and good, as you're really not very good at it. I responded because your original post invited response. If you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'd suggest you avoid declaring them publicly.

I don't mind discussing my beliefs, and I will try harder to not have an attitude.

Maybe this is a better way of me responding to your saying belief in God is subjective.
Our belief in him is personal and our beliefs may be subjective.
That does not change the nature of God.
The truth of God will not change because I believe He is actually a person, and someone else believes God is some power somewhere without any form.
So, we can believe what we want, but my whole point here is that God will tell us if we ask him. So why would we not ask Him what is Truth?

As to God not answering us in the same way, I believe he does. If you ask the same question as I do, and we both are really trying to find out the truth, he will not lie. This is why I believe we would receive the same answer. The trick is making sure we are asking the same question, and that we both really want to know.

Ok, I am shutting up, unless you do want to continue a discussion.

 

[Gameface]

At the risk of being hammered for responding, I will.
God exists and is real, Jesus exists and really is the Son of God.... and here is how anyone can find out for themselves.

First, you have to think about and be grateful for all of the good things God has done for people since the creation of Adam, down to the good things he has given you.

Second, you have to want to know if it is true, with the intent to do something about it when you receive an answer. If you want to get an answer but plan on doing nothing about it you probably will not get an answer. If you have to have this real intent, and have some faith in Christ..... then if you pray and ask God, in the name of Christ if he is real, and if Christ really is his Son and the Savior, and whatever else you want to know, he will tell you through the Holy Spirit in a way you will recognize.

If you are mocking, or don't have any faith at all, or do not have a real intent to do something with the answer you receive you probably will not receive an answer.

The other thing... it helps to read some of the words of God before as a basis for what you are asking, and it also helps that you don't give up if you do not get an answer the first time. Sometimes it takes a consistent effort to really know.... personally I think God wants us to prove to him how important it is to us to know something.

Answers come in different ways, sometimes you just know in your mind. Sometimes you feel all warm inside, blablabla... you will know. Basically God speaks to you in a language you will understand.

This is just my thoughts on this.... I figure we will hear shortly what other people think of this.

In this I find my greatest objection to faith. To me, at it's foundation faith is an act of denying and avoiding reality. You must first accept the fact that reality is not really real by accepting a supernatural and intelligent role in creating reality. That essentially means that the same supernatural entity (God) can change reality at any moment. That it is impossible to really know anything, because after all, you cannot know the mind of God. You must also accept that your perception, your ability to think and reason based on actual reality, is flawed. You have to already accept that God can be real before you can find out that He is real. Then, the way in which you find out that God is real is just that you know, or have a feeling in your bosom, or some other self-reassuring sensation that allows you not to actually know, but to feel good about your effort to actively deceive yourself and evade reality.

So in essence faith is the rejection of one's own mind. Rejection that the way in which we, as intelligent beings, interact with the world should be the result of thinking and reasoning. Rejection of our individual responsibility to understand this world as it is, rather than the way we wish, hope or desire that it is.

Anyone can convince them self of any fantasy they desire if they try hard enough and actively evade the facts that contradict their fantasy.

That's my take, anyway.

 

[LogGrad98]

Whatever helps D-Will win us a title! That's what I say. He can do it in whoever's glory he pleases. In the end, a championship will be glorious for all.

In the meantime, this thread should be stickied so the Big Man Up Stairs doesn't have to scroll through countless past pages or utilize a frustrating search function.

For the prophecy it's worth, your opinion is that I am defined by being your self

iawtp