If you could be less clear, I'd appreciate it.
Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.
- Thread starter Archie Moses
- Start date
If you could be less clear, I'd appreciate it.
m3at
Active Member
No offense taken. I'm quite intrigued with atheism partly because I agree. However, I can't completely dismiss that there isn't a God or Gods. Perhaps it's my level of comprehension in that I don't full understand how this complicated system I call my body could come into existence by complete accident. Obviously we started out as a single cell at some point...but I guess it's hard for me to fathom this happening by accident.
If we review our language(s) alone and not look at anything else, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, we, as a society still do not quite understand how language developed. One thing that comes to my mind is feral children. These children never learn how to talk, behave and function in society and that's after they have undergone several years of speech and behavioral therapy. The most important part of speech development, from what I understand, comes early in the child's life. That suggests to me that perhaps there was some being at some point in human development that set the wheels in motion.
Just my random thoughts on the subject.
GO DWILL/JAZZ
I am not saying that.
I am saying it is possible, there could be many reasons.
I don't know I would be guessing especially with your general question. Each case is different.
I do know God answers me when I ask questions. Is it always how I wanted it, or when I wanted it.... no... but I get my answer.
I do know that God has promised to answer every honest seeker of the truth.
It's a problem because that which we don't know or understand cannot be defined. Those who try to force a definition on others are being untruthful.
Beliefs that you've found for yourself are your own. But your claim that God answers consistently is demonstrably false. If I read your previous post correctly, you try to answer this by saying inconsistencies are the work of Satan. But that doesn't fly. Who decides which answers were God's, and which were Satan's?
Also, full disclosure: I have tried it for myself, with all the requirements in place.
Jerry Lundegaard
Banned
See: 9/11 perpetrators. They believed their definition was true.
m3at
Active Member
DING DING DING DING. We have a winner. Tom, show him what he's won!
This is exactly my problem with organize religion. How is it that billions of people all across this world have so many differing opinions on who, how and what God is and will do for those that don't agree? How is it possible that God only told one group of people his will and not the other? How is it possible that God told a different continent that people who don't believe in spaghetti will go straight to hell? How is it that God Told one man that no religion was true and that one man went on to create a new religion because of that statement. I guess, as a Mormon, I don't get it any longer. I can't look past the...well, past and turn a blind eye to events, situations, statements that just aren't true. I can't NOT question. What is there to have faith in when you know the answer? Should I have faith that science...hell, humanity is wrong and continue to believe wildly absurd traditions when I know them to be wrong?
I am basing it on experience. I have asked other questions that have been answered in a very real and tangible way.
I have a collection of experiences that when summed up give me answers to questions. I cannot prove it to you, but I have mentioned in this thread how each individual can find out for themselves. God can prove His existence, to you. God Himself will not change just because someone believes he has a dinosaur head, only your perception of him has changed. I can believe the earth is square all I want, and it won't make the earth actually square.
Basically I cannot prove to you God is real, but God can prove to you he is real.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
You are like someone that will not put a seed in the ground to get it to grow. You want the plant first. No work no gain. We are God's children and have been sent to earth to get a body and to prove ourselves worthy of returning back to God and living with him for eternity. After paying for your own sins you will still get into one of the lower kingdoms of Heaven, because God loves you so much. Your Hell will be that you had the chance to inherit all that your Heavenly Father has and to live with him forever and youi chose with your free agency to not try and find your way back.
This thing won't let me edit.
Jazzspaz - my last post continued my assumption that you thought God's inconsistent answers were the work of Satan.
You clarify by saying that is only one possibility. I think that's a cop out. If you claim to believe that God answers consistently, then you need a good explanation for why so many people get so many varied answers from God.
Jazzspaz - my last post continued my assumption that you thought God's inconsistent answers were the work of Satan.
You clarify by saying that is only one possibility. I think that's a cop out. If you claim to believe that God answers consistently, then you need a good explanation for why so many people get so many varied answers from God.
Interesting thoughts. Worth giving pause for. However, I don't think the pre-cursor to human speech has to come from the idea that one day there were homo sapiens and nothing that preceded them. It seems clear to me that if you have a species that develops from another, everything that preceded the new species (or ultimately, 'generation') is subject to being kept and developed or not used and lost depending on if a particular trait helps the species survive and procreate. Getting to the point, I would think there would be a form of communication that would evolve as humans did. Communication is not a patent of human beings (even if we are by far the most articulate), alone.
Working with that idea, you can then ask "well then, where did communication begin in the first place?" I don't know, but I'm sure there's someone that has either an answer or something their working with that consists of more than "because god said so."
I can admit when I don't know something, but that's also kind of exciting for me (even though I LOVE being right). It creates mystery. In a sense it creates a goal. An objective. To not know something is fine if it's not applicable or if there isn't a known answer. To flagrantly disregard substantive facts or theories (not hypotheses, there is a vast difference) because it disagrees with our most primitive system of understanding existence is not fine. It is not something that resonates with me at all.
My response is to keep trying until you get an answer. I was seeking an answer to something for 2 years. I continued to ask, and continued to have faith, and the answer was more amazing than I was hoping for. Do not give up, it wouldn't be a test if it was easy.
The issue I have with this philosophical approach is I don't see how it would not all boil down to situational ethics that can and should change with the tide. This is how the world operated up until the Great American Experiment. I prefer at least a minimal standard as opposed to "understand this world as it is, rather than the way we wish, hope or desire that it is." The latter can be a messy road when society accepts the way things are. Thoughts?
What proof would you consider a sign of God? Gravity has been enough for me (although I'd appreciate reading the atheist perspective). The simple fact that the big bang led to the perfect rate of expansion, something like a one in a trillion chance, is pretty damn phenomenal. How does that happen without control? And what exactly is gravity anyway? God's glue is just as descriptive as any scientific pondering.
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
Holy Moses, I see 8 more pages between this response and initial post, but I will say that I believe Jesus was a real guy, too. He was probably a super nice guy, but son of god? Probably not. Like pretty much every story in the bible, it's basically a fish story that got exaggerated several times until somebody wrote it down, then people took it literally. Good fundamentals, but no can dunk.
But if I was to keep trying, and eventually get an answer, how would I know that the answer was correct? By your own admission, there are various scenarios where the answer I received would not be God's answer.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think this is an apt method of finding answers. Laying aside all the problems inherent in the requirement that you have to have faith before you can elicit a response, there is no guarantee that the answer itself would be correct.
I honestly do not know how a person can read that and think that 'god' is anything but an *******. How benevolent of him to place a veil over our time with him, and then punish us and banish us for carrying on with that veil.
You may not believe me, but I am saying that if you in full honesty want an answer to if God is real, you need to put some effort into it. Read the Bible or something, think about all the good things that (and assume there is a God) God had done for mankind according to the Bible from the creation of Adam to today. In all sincerity pray in the name of Jesus Christ if God is real with all the feeling you have in you. Think of how a loving parent would answer a child's question. The answer will come in a positive way, and you will probably feel really good inside. Put aside doubt, and all the other questions you have and just give it a try. Trust me, when you get a real answer from God, you will know it and probably not forget it. Satan cannot deceive you if you pray to God and ask him a question in the name of Christ. He can't interfere with that. He may try to stop you from trying, or even praying..... but once you get the words out of your mouth you will know the difference.
Stop thinking. Doubt is not our friend.
m3at
Active Member
Again, this is your belief. What someone else half way across the world believes, and trust me, they believe it more than you do, enough to fly some planes into buildings.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
It would not be much of a test for us to chose right if we could remember living with God and all that we learned there would it. He does not banish us we banish ourselves from returning to live in His presence, if we do not desire to find our way back. And yes God is benevolent because he provides us a place in heaven even if we chose to use our free agency unwisely.