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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

fishonjazz said:
Good post. I dont disagree. Like I said in my post, its very difficult for a coach to do what I would have wanted. My two main complaints were ZERO playing time for Ochai and Kessler not playing enough. I think he could have thrown some minutes to Ochai and played kessler a bit more.
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I agree but its hard to disagree with the choices made since we have seen so much progress from so many guys.

Hardy probably made them work extra hard in gym and practices so they "earn their minutes". Sounds like a Pops thing to do.

Sexton, NAW and THT got treated differently since they are not rookies. The fact that Kessler was named "untouchable" means Hardy definitely has high hopes for Walker.. and has given him the minutes he feels are best for his development.

But this is all speculation.
 
There are so many similarities between Collins and Lauri when it comes to their talent/situation/development. Not saying lightning will strike twice, but I think Collins has actually improved in a lot of areas since being frozen out of the offense and I think his offense will once again blossom in a different situation. He's a strong defender and rebounder. Elite roll man when allowed to and I don't think he forgot how to shoot suddenly. I think if you put him on this Jazz team he's 20/10 ish guy at 62+ TS and he also improves the defense.

Had we not given up Bogey for Olynyk, I think Bogey+Gay for Collins would be a no brainer done deal.

The Jazz aren't going to be operating from the top of the draft. They need to keep going for these second draft guys. Quickley is the other guy I loved, but he has regained his offensive form and there's no way the Knicks trade him now. He's a better player than RJ Barrett.
 
framer said:
Yeah, remember that that Ochai and Kessler don't yet have NBA bodies. Kessler looked like he was going to puke after the first quarter last night. Playing like both play for big minutes in 82 games (as opposed to the 30 or so just twice a week in college) would have worn them down pretty hard. I'd prefer to teach them for the first half, then turn them loose for the second half. It worked out getting more value for the other player as well.
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So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.
 
fishonjazz said:
So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.
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He's never seen anything like an 82 game NBA schedule. I would guarantee you that Conley and Clarkson are more NBA fit. Also, most NBA players don't work out the same or practice fundamentals during the season. I'll bet Ochai is being worked pretty hard on his personal development between games with assorted trainers. I can tell you the Ochai we saw earlier in the year looked nothing like the player we have seen this month. As he gets more minutes he'll eventually be scouted and things will get more difficult for him.
 
framer said:
He's never seen anything like an 82 game NBA schedule. I would guarantee you that Conley and Clarkson are more NBA fit. Also, most NBA players don't work out the same or practice fundamentals during the season. I'll bet Ochai is being worked pretty hard on his personal development between games with assorted trainers. I can tell you the Ochai we saw earlier in the year looked nothing like the player we have seen this month. As he gets more minutes he'll eventually be scouted and things will get more difficult for him.
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He doesn't have an nba body though? Rookies play and contribute all the time. Like literally all the time. Im sure he could handle more than zero minutes. This is 2023 not 1982
Rookie donovan mitchell hadn't seen anything like an 82 game season. he seemed to be ok.
Rookie donovan mitchell played in 79 games. averaged 33.4 minutes per game. Was 21 years old.

And again. this is a rebuilding season. this is exactly the type of season to play a 23 year old rookie more than zero minutes per game like he was getting.

I would be willing to bet that if you look up all the rookies from the last draft that there aren't even that many that were getting zero minutes per game. Even on non rebuilding teams. But especially ones drafted in the early part of the draft like Ochai was. And again, he was more ready for the nba than most due to 4 years at kansas.

I think hardy has done a great job. I think he is a great coach. Im very very happy he is our coach. Its ok if he isn't perfect though.
 
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fishonjazz said:
So Ochai doesn't have an nba body but conley and clarkson do? Ochai looks much thicker and stronger than both. And remember that he played 4 years at kansas and just won a national championship. He isn't a typical rookie experience wise or age wise. He will be 23 years old in april. How old is sexton?

He is 6 foot 5 and 215 (probably even heavier now).
Clarkson is 6 foot 4 and 194 pounds.
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It's not height and weight, it's strength and conditioning. They don't have the same level of strength and conditioning of most NBA players. That comes with time and training. Like the wirey old-man strength that comes with years of physical work.

For the record I agree with you that they can and should play more minutes. Absolutely. And the "don't have an NBA body" excuse is lame. That's how you get that level of conditioning, by playing.
 
LogGrad98 said:
It's not height and weight, it's strength and conditioning. They don't have the same level of strength and conditioning of most NBA players. That comes with time and training. Like the wirey old-man strength that comes with years of physical work.

For the record I agree with you that they can and should play more minutes. Absolutely. And the "don't have an NBA body" excuse is lame. That's how you get that level of conditioning, by playing.
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Ya i mean i gave the example of donovan mitchell. 79 games as a rookie. 33 minutes per.
And its not like that is an exception. Rookies come in and contribute all the time. Rookies much younger, smaller, weaker than ochai.


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fishonjazz said:
Ya i mean i gave the example of donovan mitchell. 79 games as a rookie. 33 minutes per.
And its not like that is an exception. Rookies come in and contribute all the time. Rookies much younger, smaller, weaker than ochai.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
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Like I said, I agree with you. They should play. And obviously every single person is an individual and some will be better prepared than others. Point is there is no reason for holding back their minutes, especially for something as dumb as conditioning. Get them on the court, they'll learn real fast what conditioning means if that's what is holding them back.
 
sip said:
As soon as he goes on a hot streak we should shop him to everyone.
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I'm sure he's been available from day 1. Waiting for the right assets to be offered. That likely goes for about everyone except maybe Lauri, Clarkson, and now maybe Kessler. And those 3 would be a solid group to build around to start with.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I'm sure he's been available from day 1. Waiting for the right assets to be offered. That likely goes for about everyone except maybe Lauri, Clarkson, and now maybe Kessler. And those 3 would be a solid group to build around to start with.
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You don't build around Clarkson, you sell him high if possible. Kessler is unique like Lauri and that is Utah future frontcourt.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
My main problem with Murray is that he's a bad shooter. Seeing as we've probably going to be starting a guy in the middle who simply won't/can't shoot, the other four simply have to be able to space the floor.

When you add Collins who also isn't that good of a good shooter... I don't like that lineup. It smells like corner duty for Lauri once again, and we don't want that.
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Perhaps Lauri can then do his military service, standing in the corner for about 6 months.
 
Nba sarah has an interesting take of Jazz trade tiers on her unsalvageable podcast. She seems to have some inside info. Her coaching source tells her the Jazz are not high on vandy and want to move him. By saying this she hurts his trade value and probably stops that coach from sharing such info with her in the future.
 
silesian said:
Nba sarah has an interesting take of Jazz trade tiers on her unsalvageable podcast. She seems to have some inside info. Her coaching source tells her the Jazz are not high on vandy and want to move him. By saying this she hurts his trade value and probably stops that coach from sharing such info with her in the future.
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Yeah it's very obvious something is off.

Hardy goes out of his way not to play both Kessler and Vando at the same time. It's getting real obvious at this point.
I'm not really a fan of John Collins but his archetype (athletic rebounder/defender/shooter) would be the better archetype to put between Kessler and Lauri. There are several of these types who should be available in the next draft who will cost alot less than Collins fwiw. Just thinking out loud but I wonder if Ainge would pursue someone like Siakam in the offseason assuming the Raptors put him on the market? Supposedly there are now about 4 teams interested in Collins at this point but would rather spend the extra asset/picks to acquire the much better player in Siakam. Not interested in any bidding war for Collins.

I can see teams such as PHX and Indiana having interest in Vando. He could be a pretty sweet fit doing the dirty work next to an offensive center such as Ayton or Turner.
 
silesian said:
Nba sarah has an interesting take of Jazz trade tiers on her unsalvageable podcast. She seems to have some inside info. Her coaching source tells her the Jazz are not high on vandy and want to move him.
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No kidding. That shouldn't surprise anyone who watches the games. As I've been saying all season long, Vando is a bad player who doesn't fit. His defense is trash, he can only score on simple putbacks and he doesn't have an NBA position. His only real skill is chaotic rebounding, and while that may have been enough in 1998, it's not anymore.

silesian said:
By saying this she hurts his trade value and probably stops that coach from sharing such info with her in the future.
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Nah. In the end, teams are gonna decide to trade or not trade for Vando based on how much THEY value him. They don't care about "showcasing" or GM posturing. Sure you can set an inflated asking price for a guy, but if nobody bites, you're stuck with a dude who you don't see as part of your future anyway. That's bad decision making.

Teams can read advanced stats. And in Vando's case, they're not pretty.
 
HeatCheck said:
I can see teams such as PHX and Indiana having interest in Vando. He could be a pretty sweet fit doing the dirty work next to an offensive center such as Ayton or Turner.
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Vando needs to play with four scorers at any given time, basically. That's the only scenario where he can "thrive".

He still needs to add value though. That's easier said than done.
 
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