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Utah Jazz @ Milwaukee Bucks, 6:30pm mst

candrew said:
I always found it funny how Maggette pined to play in Utah because they play basketball "the right way" while this guy has never played basketball the right way in his career. I'm sure he's just passing time until Skiles finds someone dumb enough to take Magette off his hands.
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Jefferson hasn't played the basketball "the right way" for most of his career, either, and AJ shows what it can take for bad habits to die hard.
 
Good win for the jazz to bounce back against a team which is playing better than their record shows. I loved the offensives rebounds and tip ins. That was the difference. I think a big part of that was playing Frank with another big man. I love seeing two 6'11 plus players in for the jazz to get rebounds and clog the lane. D-will and CJ hitting outside shots was the other big difference. Raja has been garbage on the offensive end. Hopefully he can find his stroke.
 
The line-up with DWill, CJ, AK, Al Jeff, and Frank Elson was effective. That line up rebounded really well and got 2nd and 3rd-chance points at a critical juncture in the game.

I think we're going to see Elson get more minutes. He plays defense, plays within the system, rebounds usually, and can hit the 20-footer. That makes him our best center if we want to move Jefferson to the PF.
 
Two easy games coming up followed by 4 days rest for Portland at HOME. No excuse not to turn this into a little run. And the schedule coming up in January is a cakewalk. But this team is still not running full cylinder by a longshot. This next week is critical to taking advantage of the softest part of our schedule. Got to get it rolling.
 
I know Minem will love this, but I really can't defend giving Elson minutes that should go to Fes. I've really grown to like Elson, but Fes is better and has more potential. We're going to regret not playing Fes over Elson long term.
 
Good win, especially after having another miserable 4th quarter. I thought Al, who was his usual tentative self, played with more aggression after blowing that easy shot which should have been an easy layup/dunk for him. I wish he'd get over that problem soon. Elson was just great out there. He hustled, worked for offensive tip outs, and was just an overall positive. Nice to see a money shot from Memo even though he doesn't look great out there. Always good to see CJ get points. He's pretty much the only scoring off the bench.

One play did bug the hell out of me. Towards the end of the 3rd Deron took a shot from some Buck and was hurting a bit. The Jazz get the board, and CJ takes a couple seconds to see what's going on. Instead of dribbling the ball to halfcourt he decides to pass it to Deron who is hurting. Then Deron lollygags up the court and bam, an 8 second call. And of course, the Bucks get a 3 off the turnover to tie the game. Didn't matter in the end but still just bad all the way around. Deron should have called a timeout, CJ shouldn't have passed the ball to him, etc. Sheesh.

Anyways, great games by Deron/Al/Sap/AK/CJ/Elson and even Watson wasn't too bad despite his whole 2 points. Only Bell and Okur were really bad there, and even both of them got two pretty big 3s. One thing I like about Bell too. When AK got hacked you could tell he was upset off the bench. Too often in the past it seemed like Jazz players would get hacked and nobody else seemed to give a damn. I like the passion Bell brings, although I wish his shot would get better. Hopefully he just needs a few games to get back in the groove.
 
billyshelby said:
I know Minem will love this, but I really can't defend giving Elson minutes that should go to Fes. I've really grown to like Elson, but Fes is better and has more potential. We're going to regret not playing Fes over Elson long term.
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I'm shocked to hear that after tonight. If anything Fes should be taking Memo's minutes. Elson was great tonight.
 
Nate505 said:
I'm shocked to hear that after tonight. If anything Fes should be taking Memo's minutes. Elson was great tonight.
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Agree. We all knew that some big man or the other would be left unhappy in terms of playing time, after Okur comes back.Inevitable. It will be by committee for a while. But Elson has been the steadier big man off the bench. Cannot expect Sloan to keep all 13 guys happy with their minutes.
 
Even if Elson isn't producing like crazy, he has been the steadiest big man in the rotation outside of Millsap. The Jazz might rue not playing Fesenko more this year, or they might re-sign him for peanuts next year and reap the benefits. We'll see.
 
Neither is Fes better, nor does he have more potential. Right now, IMO, you are seeing all you are going to from Fesenko.
 
billyshelby said:
I know Minem will love this, but I really can't defend giving Elson minutes that should go to Fes. I've really grown to like Elson, but Fes is better and has more potential. We're going to regret not playing Fes over Elson long term.
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+44 (KF's jersey number) for the profound wisdom.

Given the lack of effort that Sloan has placed (despite cheap talk since last) in finding court time Fesenko (despite his ability to contribute while on the court), Elson has predictably won Jerry's favor. I don't think that FE's FT% is enough to warrant that, but whatever. For a long time, my mantra has been to play more of the bigs, and consider playing them alongside PM or AJ. Sloan still let fouls largely determine the substitutions--not good enough against better teams--but at least one of the bigs showed how sage the strategy was. More recently, I have added the weakness that was the thirtysomething Raja Bell, and suggested that a few minutes more of RBs time to CJ was wise also--and was comforting after Sloan subbed out Kiri first for CJ. As if by magic, when those simple changes took place, the Jazz pulled out a gimme win that really would've been disappointing to lose.

I'm skeptical that the 4/5 rotation of Millsap, AJ, Elson, and Okur--the rotation that is looking likely--can beat the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Spurs, and Mavericks. I think that Fes with experience would make that rotation more clearly solid. So it's still a problem. At least we can find solace in actually winning the rebound battle tonight also.
 
LOL at the Elson haters. This is the Utah Jazz - we're trying to win games right now and Frank is helping. Who the hell knows what will happen when Fes takes the floor? He's blown just as many games as he's contributed to. Fes is an OK player but his potential is certainly not high enough that we should bench other productive players in order to get him minutes.

Seriously, what's not to like about Elson? He's athletic, long, tall, mean, can hit a jumpshot, plays defense, and most importantly, has a brain and uses it.

Fran is the man.
 
Marty McFly said:
LOL at the Elson haters. This is the Utah Jazz - we're trying to win games right now and Frank is helping. Who the hell knows what will happen when Fes takes the floor? He's blown just as many games as he's contributed to. Fes is an OK player but his potential is certainly not high enough that we should bench other productive players in order to get him minutes.

Seriously, what's not to like about Elson? He's athletic, long, tall, mean, can hit a jumpshot, plays defense, and most importantly, has a brain and uses it.

Fran is the man.
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Feel free to start citing the games that Fes has "blown". I'll start this game show with Elson's 4-turnover bumblefest against the Dallas Mavericks on December 3rd that Frank didn't blow alone but certainly wasn't a positive factor.

I already acknowledged that Frank is a better FT shooter, but he does not control the paint better than Fes does, and he doesn't have as much height. FE's 7.1 PP30 vs. Fes's 6.3 PP30 ain't much to write home to Amsterdam about. And Fes has a higher rate of blocks & rebounds and a lower rate of turnovers. Assists are within 0.3 per 30. Fes hasn't distinguished himself to be clearly superior to Elson, but he's also had to do it in over 100 minutes less, despite the similar productivity.

The bigs rotation is deeper than most Jazz teams have had, but the order is good ol' Sloan vet bias, which--by giving Fes's (or anybody's) minutes to Okur on Friday was a big step toward losing against the Hornets. Before he stepped on the court, Utah had a very manageable 7-point deficit. When Slowkur subbed out, that amount had tripled. So much for the development haters with the doomsday scenarios about developing players costing games. There you have one: a vet playing a big role in burying the team. Saturday night, the Turkish torero reached beyond his own best this year, ending with 1 for 5, one "better" than his 1-for-4 performance the night before. If any youngin' (including Fes) had had such a performance (much less two in a row), there would be cries for trades and D-League and the after-game training bicycle.

Elson's fine against a bottomfeeder team like the Bucks, but he hasn't been particularly good against contenders. What's most important is to have somebody in there who can help lift the Jazz beyond a dismal defensive status quo. I'm not sure that Elson is that guy, but perhaps the best service that he can provide is to at least play well enough so that Mediokur is no more than a selective temptation to sub in. If MO can somehow start playing convincing basketball on both ends of the court, especially defensively, then there's less to worry about. Somebody step up and be consistent.
 
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To sum up this argument so far:

Marty: Elson has been big for us. He's shown more consistency and flat out more production than Fesenko, period. To bench Elson for Fesenko while Elson is producing for us makes no sense.
S2M: Elson had a bad game against the Mavericks, and Fesenko might have more potential, and Memo was really bad in his first couple of games back. Veterans suck. Coaching 101.

Feel free to let me know if I missed anything.
 
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