I think top 4 in the WC by 2014 playoffs is reasonable. We will hve the talent and capspace.
We Need to Talk About Kevin
- Thread starter margodydek
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I think top 4 in the WC by 2014 playoffs is reasonable. We will hve the talent and capspace.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
KOC has done a great job setting us up for something big. He did a gutsy thing trading DWill, and it was the right move. He's played it conservatively since then -- which is fine because that kind of conservative thinking is justified by the idea that we could have a free-agent haul next summer.
IMO, he needs to make that haul happen if he wants to be considered an elite GM.
IMO, he needs to make that haul happen if he wants to be considered an elite GM.
Agreed. It will depend on what other teams do, but I would think that these teams will be the ones that have a realistic chance at being top 4.
OKC (of course)
Minnesota (if they can get rid of Wesley Johnson of course)
Utah
Memphis (If Rudy Gay ever truly becomes a max player and not just a max contract)
Clippers (Blake developing plus Paul remaining healthy)
Dallas and The Lakers are money powerhouses who could make some big signings or trades and easily be top 4.
I see Denver, Houston, and Portland as being middling franchises currently who will be perennial 6th-8th seed contenders. Portland did fleece New Jersey though for a great pick, so they may make up a lot of ground if they have a good showing in the draft.
New Orleans could challenge depending on if the health of Gordon and the development of Davis, along with what they do in FA and probably another year of lottery drafting.
Golden State and Sacramento are perennial losers.
Phoenix has a lot of work to do.
Forgot to talk about San Antonio. Duncan should retire this year and give the Spurs a lot of cap room to play in FA. They could still be top 4 if they make some really good moves to bring in a good big man.
margodydek
Well-Known Member
Makes you realize how tough the West is. It seems like teams in the West are really loading up right now and the conference is going to be a beast the next few years.
green
Well-Known Member
KOC is close to untouchable. First, he got Stock and Malone out of town without pissing anyone off. Next, let's look at who he drafted:
Burks and Kanter - TBD, but promising
Hayward and Evans - great draft
Maynor and Sutan - Maynor is a solid NBA guy. good draft
Kouf, Tamic, Drag - Bad draft
Almond, Hill - Bad draft,
Brewer, Brown, Millsap - good to great draft. Two NBA starters
Deron and CJ - fantastic draft
Humphries, Snyder, Pavel - One NBA starter. Good draft.
Pavlovic, Mo Williams - Both in the NBA, one starter
Humphrey Sampson - bad draft
Deshawn and Dickend - one nba starter
Out of 25 players drafted, 8 have become starters (32%), with two TBD. 9 have been outright busts (36%). 8 have been serviceable players (32%). This means that 2 out of every 3 players he drafts become NBA level contributors or better. AND, these numbers could be skewed low depending on how Kanter and Burks turnout.
He brought Boozer and Memo to Utah as Free Agents, something no one else has ever been able to do. He moved up to draft Deron, then turned Deron into Kanter and Favors.
He now has the Jazz with four lottery picks, a gazillion dollars under the cap, with good vets that are expiring to be used as trade assets.
If you think KOC's seat is even close to neutral, you are crazy.
Burks and Kanter - TBD, but promising
Hayward and Evans - great draft
Maynor and Sutan - Maynor is a solid NBA guy. good draft
Kouf, Tamic, Drag - Bad draft
Almond, Hill - Bad draft,
Brewer, Brown, Millsap - good to great draft. Two NBA starters
Deron and CJ - fantastic draft
Humphries, Snyder, Pavel - One NBA starter. Good draft.
Pavlovic, Mo Williams - Both in the NBA, one starter
Humphrey Sampson - bad draft
Deshawn and Dickend - one nba starter
Out of 25 players drafted, 8 have become starters (32%), with two TBD. 9 have been outright busts (36%). 8 have been serviceable players (32%). This means that 2 out of every 3 players he drafts become NBA level contributors or better. AND, these numbers could be skewed low depending on how Kanter and Burks turnout.
He brought Boozer and Memo to Utah as Free Agents, something no one else has ever been able to do. He moved up to draft Deron, then turned Deron into Kanter and Favors.
He now has the Jazz with four lottery picks, a gazillion dollars under the cap, with good vets that are expiring to be used as trade assets.
If you think KOC's seat is even close to neutral, you are crazy.
margodydek
Well-Known Member
He's set things up perfectly. Now I just hope he executes
margodydek
Well-Known Member
Also, do people realize that the draft is essentially 20 days away?
Yes and damn I hope we are in the mix.
green
Well-Known Member
He always has before, with two mistakes. 1 - AK's deal. 2 - Harp's deal. You could even argue that those weren't directed by him. I think we will continue to be amazed what he can do with a small market team that no one wants to play for. I would be shocked if Al is on this team this fall and if the Jazz don't have home court next year in the playoffs.
I think the Harp deal and Memo extension were his worst.
AK's sucked big time, but I attribute a lot of that to hindsight. A lot of people would have given AK that deal because he looked like a rising star.
Really, Borchardt was our draft pick that year. It turned out bad, but that was a high risk/high reward draft
I don't think he's responsible for the Memo deal (Gail's big, dumb heart) at least not primarily. Same with Harp (Larry's big, dumb heart) and AK (Larry's big, sometimes dumb brain).
As far as the premise of this thread in general, all it's posing is that there must be conditions where KOC's job should be put in question. It's the obvious reality, margo appears to be blue trying to get this basic idea through everyone's dense skulls to little avail.
I like KOC. As margo has said - what, a million times already - he has set the team up well. The question now is does this tree bear fruit, and if it doesn't, how much responsibility does KOC bear?
As far as the premise of this thread in general, all it's posing is that there must be conditions where KOC's job should be put in question. It's the obvious reality, margo appears to be blue trying to get this basic idea through everyone's dense skulls to little avail.
I like KOC. As margo has said - what, a million times already - he has set the team up well. The question now is does this tree bear fruit, and if it doesn't, how much responsibility does KOC bear?
WTF did you just say? Parables are for Jesus.
He would be .. we're not there yet. Damn.
HaydizzleToFavors
Banned
You guys are complaining too much bout KOC. He's perfect for Utah and does a good job here IMO. I'm happy with him.
I have faith the Jazz will be better than the Sixers have been, but beyond that, and being honest with myself, I'm not sure just how much better. The biggest lesson I've learned about following sports is that making predictions and getting too high is folly and is kind of a recipe for disaster