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What an embarrassing night for all Jazz fans (4/14/14). Tank crowd can suck a fat one. (LONG)

HighlandHomie

Well-Known Member
The following may sound douchey, but since it's true, you'll have to deal with it: if you have never played competitive sports, particularly basketball, you are most likely in the pro-tank crowd. Here is why that's such a foolish perspective on this season.

Knowing how to win close, high-level games is a learned skill. Outcomes of games aren't coincidental in most cases. In basketball, there are hundreds of elements to the game and how it's played to be in position to win a game. Among those elements are something as simple as execution of basic fundamentals to as complex as a read-and-react action based on how secondary defender is guarding. The teams that do a combo of all those things better and more consistently, and at the right times, win.

The primary outrage of the Jazz consumers should lie squarely on Greg Miller who's made the choice to penny-pinch with a coach while the roster restructured from the D-Will/Booz era. Corbin may be a great guy, and perhaps knows more about basketball than any of us could ever dream of. But guess what? He can't ****ing teach it. Obviously, our roster this season featured plenty of young guys with bright futures. They had the same breakdowns defensively tonight against the Lakers (specifically guarding the pick-and-roll) that they did the first game of the preseason - and basically every game in between.

Favors and Kanter react to double teams as poorly as they have since they've come to the Jazz under Corbin's tutelage.

Burke showed his moxy as a 'killer' during the Big Dance, and several times this season. Burks was THE breakout player of the season for us, and the most positive storyline for us. He was a complete monster in the 2nd half of the season, and looks to be a star in the making. I thought I had seen enough to gather what a 'best-case scenario' would be for him last season, but he surpassed that for sure this year. His relentlessness attacking the cup and ability to get buckets in the lane, and trips to the FT line, is rare and will be an awesome piece for us.

Hayward has a really, really nice all-around game. He's had plenty of time to display a killer, alpha-dog mentality but hasn't even come close, and if he stays he'll be complementary as opposed to the star as many of us had once envisioned.

Those five NEEDED to learn to what it takes to win games in the league this year.

The window of opportunity is short, and we have talent to be a real contender down the road. If we had a capable coach the last few years grooming these pups, there's no way we finish as crappy as we do this year.

The most concerning part for me is that there's no way any of the players were 'tanking', and I'm 99.9% sure the coaching staff wasn't prepping for games or making subs with the conscious hope that it leads to a loss. To do that as a player would be admitting they aren't good enough to be real, so lets suck to try and get a good lotto pick and someone who may be good.

There's no guarantee (sans a guy every few years) that a top 3 pick rookie will be a franchise-changing, immediate impact player. To be honest, none of the current guys in the draft will be the reason a team becomes a bona fide playoff team in the next two years. So to go through a season where our great nucleus of five (TB, AB, GH, DF, EK) can't gain the invaluable experience of winning close games, and/or blowing teams out - and knowing how/why they did so - for the chance to take a kid who may or may not pan out down the line is awful. To want that is a joke, and displays cluelessness.

Aaron Gordon is the most NBA ready of all these guys because he'll be able to contribute at a relatively high level defensively and I haven't seen him projected to go top 3 anywhere. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

It is imperative the Jazz find a coach who not only is capable with the dry-erase board, but understands teaching the game and developing talent and cohesion on the court.

We've got 5 MFs who are really good in the talent dept for their respective positions, but need to be coached up at an NBA level in the worst way.

Jazz fans should've been rallying to get these 5 to get some confidence playing for and with each other by getting dubbs this year. There were plenty available.

No one who has a casual-fan's basketball mind can say the Lakers roster is more talented, or better, than the Jazz tonight. What was the difference then?
 
Got as far as, "if you've never played competitive sports" and then starting furiously lol'ing.

Pls highland, tell us of your illustrious sporting career. I ain't never sports'd before lol


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Tl;dr:
Uncle-Rico.jpg
 
Got as far as, "if you've never played competitive sports" and then starting furiously lol'ing.

Pls highland, tell us of your illustrious sporting career. I ain't never sports'd before lol


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Started on a state title team and played DII for four years. I was hoping some members of Jazzfanz could talk basketball on a basketball message board. If you disagree that developing a winning culture is vital to building a title contender that is fair, but hopefully you can take some time to provide some reasoning as I have.
 
The window of opportunity is short, and we have talent to be a real contender down the road. If we had a capable coach the last few years grooming these pups, there's no way we finish as crappy as we do this year.

The window of opportunity starts when you find your first superstar. If you aren't confident anyone on the roster is that, then you want to be bad in a loaded year like this. Once you're on the treadmill, its impossible to get off.
 
i read few lines and something caught my attention - 'Aaron Gordon is the most NBA ready of all these guys'

if i had a shot gun, i probably would've shot my foot. there is no reason to walk normally after reading that comment
 
i agree knowing how to win is important and so is a winning culture.

You know what is even more important? Talent.
I will take a chance at a superstar over a few extra wins any day
 
it's called having a plan. there is no reason to win 30-35 games. that's gonna get you another 30-35 wins. and maybe 35-40 wins after that. maybe 38-42 wins. but you stop right there at 38-42 wins. always hover around .500. year after year after year. been there and done that. we gotta do whatever it takes to build a championship caliber team again. malone & stockton didn't give us championships, but we were so damn close. and we were contenders for years. why? because we had 2 perennial superstars.

i'm all for tanking 1 more year. i suddenly realize that we might be bottom 5 again next year again if we remove some veterans and just go all out youth movement. next year draft should be good too. we are friggin utah jazz. we ain't gonna attract top tier FAs. we gotta build this team through the draft. it's critical that we get our all star through this draft.
 
Started on a state title team and played DII for four years. I was hoping some members of Jazzfanz could talk basketball on a basketball message board. If you disagree that developing a winning culture is vital to building a title contender that is fair, but hopefully you can take some time to provide some reasoning as I have.

Well, I played NAIA college golf and have two hole in ones under my belt, so I feel qualified to speak on the NBA.

Honestly bro, a winning culture is a franchise thing, and the Jazz have that. One year of losing doesn't change that. Players will come and go, and as cold as it is, IDGAF about almost any player on our roster. None of them are difference makers. See: 13-14' NBA basketball season.

Talent is everything in the NBA. This is not college where a bunch of scrappy hard workin guys can win one for the gipper. If it were a math equation it would be:

Talent + talent x talent / talent = everything


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The only time you don't tank is if you have a legitimate shot at the NBA Playoffs. Do you really believe this team would've been THAT much closer winning ten extra games - especially at the cost of potentially landing a franchise defining player? C'mon, now!
 
The following may sound douchey, but since it's true, you'll have to deal with it: if you have never played competitive sports, particularly basketball, you are most likely in the pro-tank crowd. Here is why that's such a foolish perspective on this season.

Knowing how to win close, high-level games is a learned skill. Outcomes of games aren't coincidental in most cases. In basketball, there are hundreds of elements to the game and how it's played to be in position to win a game. Among those elements are something as simple as execution of basic fundamentals to as complex as a read-and-react action based on how secondary d yada yada blah blah blieh bloa blah


tl;dr


the part that i read. seems would be solved with a good coach who does not waste time on feveloping vets
 
Started on a state title team and played DII for four years. I was hoping some members of Jazzfanz could talk basketball on a basketball message board. If you disagree that developing a winning culture is vital to building a title contender that is fair, but hopefully you can take some time to provide some reasoning as I have.

you have to look at the big picture. i hate tanking the bad way. everybody looking awful, bad coaching, no efforts... but i don't mind tanking the exciting way. we are not going anywhere with our current roster. we got good pieces. we need more.

i used to hoop in high school and i still play summer and winter league locally. it's no DII level, but i play with several ex collegians, and some even were ex d leaguers. i love winning, but that's from players perspective.

for fans, it's different. it's not about 1 game. it's the season. it's the future. it's the star who can be the face of the franchise. i have nephews and cousins who root for lakers, spurs, and even heat. why? because Jazz friggin suck with no stars they can root for. we don't have KD. no bron. no kobe. no wade. no d rose. no curry. and they are too young to remember malone and stockton. and if we continue to produce mediocrity than more and more our kids will start looking elsewhere. this happens to every bad franchise. tradionally we are a great franchise with great fans. but IMO we were great fans because we had good teams for a long time. put a bad product on the court, things will change quickly. it's just a matter of time.

every contending teams need at least 2 legit all stars. 3 are even better. we have none. we gotta go get stars, but again the reality is that superstars won't want to come to us. we are a small market. we need to draft right guys. we gotta do it Spurs way. and it means we also need to upgrade our coach.


no doubt, i understand where you are coming from. but again, be a fan, don't be a player. you'll understand
 
This is not college where a bunch of scrappy hard workin guys can win one for the gipper.

Check the Jazz roster in 2003-04, and their win-loss total.

Of course you need a 'superstar' and talent, but the Jazz have a few studs in the making and a few really freaking good role players in the making. My point was we were gonna be lotto most likely, and in this draft, I don't see much of a difference between 2-14. Jabari has a chance to be really special... But he could also turn into Billy Owens. Burke getting first-hand experience this year winning at least 10-15 more games is more beneficial to the Jazz in the big picture than the difference between Julius Randle and whoever gets picked 10-14.
 
no doubt, i understand where you are coming from. but again, be a fan, don't be a player. you'll understand

Trust me, I am a fan first now haha. I totally get the logic behind wanting the best draft pick possible, but my point is that in the big picture I feel like our core five having a legit NBA coach who could've led them to many more wins this season is much more beneficial than the difference between a guy who gets picked 3rd and 10th in this years draft. An incoming rookie is nothing more than question marks and uncertainty. We know what we got with TB, AB, GH, DF and EK.
 
Check the Jazz roster in 2003-04, and their win-loss total.

Of course you need a 'superstar' and talent, but the Jazz have a few studs in the making and a few really freaking good role players in the making. My point was we were gonna be lotto most likely, and in this draft, I don't see much of a difference between 2-14. Jabari has a chance to be really special... But he could also turn into Billy Owens. Burke getting first-hand experience this year winning at least 10-15 more games is more beneficial to the Jazz in the big picture than the difference between Julius Randle and whoever gets picked 10-14.

That time I realized I was conversating with a crazy person...


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