what should Favors/Hayward extension be vs what will they be

[candrew]

I don't agree with this at all. For three years we have watched Favors play, and his faults have been too many fouls, no offensive game, not a smart player. In the scrimmage we saw a bigger, slower Favors that...had too many fouls, no offensive game, and not playing smart. This reaction isn't to the Olympic scrimmage, but to the fact that here we are FOUR years later, and Favors hasn't improved. Now, no one is saying he sucks.

Right no one is saying he sucks; but to say he hasn't improved is equally wrong.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't agree with this at all. For three years we have watched Favors play, and his faults have been too many fouls, no offensive game, not a smart player. In the scrimmage we saw a bigger, slower Favors that...had too many fouls, no offensive game, and not playing smart. This reaction isn't to the Olympic scrimmage, but to the fact that here we are FOUR years later, and Favors hasn't improved. Now, no one is saying he sucks.

The debate is whether he is a good role player who deserves 10 million a year, or a great All-Star who can carry this team to titles and deserves a max deal. After seeing no improvement so far this summer, I'd am saying I would NOT pay him a max deal.

If Favors was a max player, even slightly hurt, he should have DOMINATED DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Andersen and Chandler Parsons. Those guys SUCK. And he didn't do anything. He isn't a max player. He had 4 personal fouls in 8 mins. Where is this improvement that shows he is going to lead us to titles? Or do you want another AK?

Damn man. I guess if George really was an All-Star he should have dominated Hayward, right?

Oh wait, it's just a ****ing scrimmage.

Also, I've never noticed Favors not to be a smart player. Not saying he is the most cerebral in the world, but he is far from boneheaded.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Derrick Favors ‏@dfavors14 23 Jul

Where's the best yoga place in Utah??

Wasn't Kareem famous for starting the yoga trend among NBA players.

Works out like Malone, relaxes like Kareem.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Wasn't Kareem famous for starting the yoga trend among NBA players.

Works out like Malone, relaxes like Kareem.

Sounds like Derrick just needs one of those "happy-ending" massages!

 

[fishonjazz]

Honestly, I'm sure some people have had their back's tighten up on them before. You really can't move at all. He has been working out so much lately I'm sure he just had a little bit of workout fatigue.

I'm MUCH more worried about his plantar faciatis than his back

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't agree with this at all. For three years we have watched Favors play, and his faults have been too many fouls, no offensive game, not a smart player. In the scrimmage we saw a bigger, slower Favors that...had too many fouls, no offensive game, and not playing smart. This reaction isn't to the Olympic scrimmage, but to the fact that here we are FOUR years later, and Favors hasn't improved. Now, no one is saying he sucks.

The debate is whether he is a good role player who deserves 10 million a year, or a great All-Star who can carry this team to titles and deserves a max deal. After seeing no improvement so far this summer, I'd am saying I would NOT pay him a max deal.

If Favors was a max player, even slightly hurt, he should have DOMINATED DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Andersen and Chandler Parsons. Those guys SUCK. And he didn't do anything. He isn't a max player. He had 4 personal fouls in 8 mins. Where is this improvement that shows he is going to lead us to titles? Or do you want another AK?

Hard to dominate those guys from the bench.
Also, I watched that scrimmage and 3 of the 4 fouls called on favors were BS calls.

 

[green]

Hard to dominate those guys from the bench.
Also, I watched that scrimmage and 3 of the 4 fouls called on favors were BS calls.

Who cares if they were BS calls? They were called. You sound like BYU fan...we lost because of everyone else. We were awesome. You still lost.

 

[Twin Towers]

Then Hayward's agent will be laughed at. You can't compare the two. One is an All-Star. The other is a player who played most of last year as a BENCH PLAYER. And he wasn't in contention for 6th man of the year either. To compare the two is silly. Hayward's comparable players aren't All-Stars. Hayward isn't an All-Star. He won't be unless he is the third best player on a title team ala Ginobili.

They both are wing players from the same draft. Extensions coming at the same time.

Your not getting the market works. I AM NOT COMPARING THE PLAYERS!! Not sure why some of you idiots don't understand how the market works. Study economics a little. Holy FILTER

George will set the high end of the market. So any agent with a brain will say well if George deserves Max money than that will help us determine how much Hayward will get paid. His agent will use this information because he will say Hayward is 70 percent of the player George is or whatever his agent wants to start the discussions with.

It might end up being 10 million a year. But the point is his agent will wait because if there is someone getting an extension from his draft class that will clearly get more than Hayward than you can bet your a** that his agent will use that information any way he can. Again not about comparing players. Its how it sets the market for the rest.

George is not that much better than Hayward. Its ridiculous for people to act like George is the next Kobe or Lebron.
The guy shot 41% from the field. Hayward shot better from the field and the 3 point line. I am not saying Hayward is better or even the same. But the ridiculous separation everyone creates is beyond dumb.
Hayward played 28 minutes per game. George played 37. The offense ran through Jefferson. Hayward rarely was able to run the offense.
Most fans are so retarded and just look and final stats and g "This guy has more stats so he is better." It literally shows the lack of understanding of the game.
Look at per 36 of Hayward compared. Hayward wins half of the stats since most people are already looking at that.

 

[green]

70% of a max deal is 10 million..,

 

[green]

Twin, you are looking at Hayward through a fans eyes. A smart fan, but fan nevertheless. If you are Utah, this is a business deal. If Hayward's agent says he wants George money, you laugh at him. Hayward isn't an All-Star. You are trying to get Hayward as cheap as you can without pissing him off. You mentioned 70%. I agree 100%. I'd pay him 10 million a year. I'd fight for less, but am happy with 10.

 

[Twin Towers]

Twin, you are looking at Hayward through a fans eyes. A smart fan, but fan nevertheless. If you are Utah, this is a business deal. If Hayward's agent says he wants George money, you laugh at him. Hayward isn't an All-Star. You are trying to get Hayward as cheap as you can without pissing him off. You mentioned 70%. I agree 100%. I'd pay him 10 million a year. I'd fight for less, but am happy with 10.

I am not looking through a fans eyes. Hayward is good but he will never be a star. He needs to be 2nd the 3rd option. I do think he is a starter on a championship team.
But I also think George is highly overrated because of his high stats and the team running the offense through him half the time.
He hasn't shown to be efficient or take smart shots. His shot selection is horrible. Hayward seems to be better at that. Come playoff time that is very important. If the pacers worked the ball in better and didn't force outside shots they would of won.

Agree fully on what your saying. Try to get less. I am hoping we can get him for around 8 Million a year. I personally would not give George max money. Any player no matter what position should not get max money shooting that horrible from the field.

If I was Hayward I would wait to sign his extension because when he plays more minutes this year he will be able to boost his stock. Hopefully he decides to sign now though. He is penny pincher and doesn't spend much so hopefully he goes for security and him and Favors go for their extensions now.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Twin, you are looking at Hayward through a fans eyes. A smart fan, but fan nevertheless. If you are Utah, this is a business deal. If Hayward's agent says he wants George money, you laugh at him. Hayward isn't an All-Star. You are trying to get Hayward as cheap as you can without pissing him off. You mentioned 70%. I agree 100%. I'd pay him 10 million a year. I'd fight for less, but am happy with 10.

I think laughing at him would probably piss him off. I doubt Hayward is going to ask for a max deal, which is what George money would be.

 

[Weezur]

Still waiting for Sacto to give Cousins a max extension.

 

[fishonjazz]

Who cares if they were BS calls? They were called. You sound like BYU fan...we lost because of everyone else. We were awesome. You still lost.

You sound like a dick.

My bad for trying to stick up for our guy when the refs and his own coach are screwing him.

I will try to talk more trash about favors in the future

 

[Stifle Tower]

Jazz would be wise to offer Hayward and Favors extensions NOW. Will they be less motivated after signing big deals? Perhaps. But they will never be as cheap. Both were underutilized last season due to Jefferson, Millsap and Foye being the main focuses on offense. Bigger roles and more minutes mean stats for both are going to increase. And that means MORE $.

 

[akirac73]

But I also think George is highly overrated because of his high stats and the team running the offense through him half the time.
He hasn't shown to be efficient or take smart shots. His shot selection is horrible. Hayward seems to be better at that. Come playoff time that is very important. If the pacers worked the ball in better and didn't force outside shots they would of won.

I think George is thought of highly around the league because he stepped up his game big time in the playoffs. That is worth more in the eyes of the media, fans (not Jazz fans), and front offices than simply comparing regular season stats. In Hayward's only appearance in the playoffs, he disappeared completely, a monumental fail of 18% FG, 8% 3PT despite playing 30 min/game. Hayward is a solid player and should be in the Jazz's long term plans, but I wish people would stop with the comparisons to George. They're not even similar. George is closer to a Pippen type player, Hayward is more like Dan Majerle (before biting my head off, remember now, Majerle was a 3-time all-star).

 

[Jazz4ever]

I don't agree with this at all. For three years we have watched Favors play, and his faults have been too many fouls, no offensive game, not a smart player. In the scrimmage we saw a bigger, slower Favors that...had too many fouls, no offensive game, and not playing smart. This reaction isn't to the Olympic scrimmage, but to the fact that here we are FOUR years later, and Favors hasn't improved. Now, no one is saying he sucks.

The debate is whether he is a good role player who deserves 10 million a year, or a great All-Star who can carry this team to titles and deserves a max deal. After seeing no improvement so far this summer, I'd am saying I would NOT pay him a max deal.

If Favors was a max player, even slightly hurt, he should have DOMINATED DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Andersen and Chandler Parsons. Those guys SUCK. And he didn't do anything. He isn't a max player. He had 4 personal fouls in 8 mins. Where is this improvement that shows he is going to lead us to titles? Or do you want another AK?

First off, he has only been in the league three years....besides that he just turned 22 years old. He is younger than a lot of bigs that were drafted this year. Last year he improved his rebound rate, block rate, steal rate, and free throws % from 2011. He could be defensive player of the year if the trend continues, that part alone deserves max money. Yes his offense is stagnating, let's see what Malone can do for him there. Even if he can't help him, Favors still would be on pace to get 15 points a game, far more than other defensive beasts Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan will ever sniff.

 

[green]

First off, he has only been in the league three years....besides that he just turned 22 years old. He is younger than a lot of bigs that were drafted this year. Last year he improved his rebound rate, block rate, steal rate, and free throws % from 2011. He could be defensive player of the year if the trend continues, that part alone deserves max money. Yes his offense is stagnating, let's see what Malone can do for him there. Even if he can't help him, Favors still would be on pace to get 15 points a game, far more than other defensive beasts Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan will ever sniff.

I agree. He CAN do all of those things. I'm not paying him anything north on 10 million until he DOES those things.

As far as 15 pts per game...on a bad team yes. That doesn't mean he is worth 15 million a year if his 15 pts come off of 15 shots ala Jefferson. Remember, his game last year where he "blew up", he scored 20-some odd points on 20-some odd shots.

 

[bigmike]

I think they both get 12M/year. And I think Paul George gets the max (or damn close to it).

And my two cents - I have no problem with John Wall getting the max. He very quietly had an exceptional second half of the season and is still just scratching the surface of what he could be. Washington is smart to lock him up.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I agree. He CAN do all of those things. I'm not paying him anything north on 10 million until he DOES those things.

As far as 15 pts per game...on a bad team yes. That doesn't mean he is worth 15 million a year if his 15 pts come off of 15 shots ala Jefferson. Remember, his game last year where he "blew up", he scored 20-some odd points on 20-some odd shots.

Not how things usually work with young players. If they show improvement year to year, they get paid more than their current year production would suggest.