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With the 5th pick the Utah Jazz select Noah Vonleh

PointGod_AlecBurks said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqtlJ0fP_wA

6:40 - shooting ability
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Weaknesses are p&r defense, not a rim protector, poor passer, lacks explosiveness... Can someone explain to me how Vonleh isn't Al Jefferson. I admit my knowledge of him is limited. I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm really curious to know from people who have seen him. Is he a poor pick and roll defender because he lacks quickness like Al or is he just out of position or lacks I.Q.? Is he a poor rim protector for similar reasons?

The similarities to Al worry me... Similar size, build... Both undersized at the 5, both have great offensive arsenals, but both are poor passers, and both are turnover prone, Vonleh was also known to be a black hole. If Vonleh can't keep up as a 5 in college or defend the p&r he can't play the 3 in the NBA

Vonleh did dive for some balls in the vid and he went after some loose balls... I guess playing some defense, and putting a little effort in puts him above Al.
 
Mongoose said:
Weaknesses are p&r defense, not a rim protector, poor passer, lacks explosiveness... Can someone explain to me how Vonleh isn't Al Jefferson. I admit my knowledge of him is limited. I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm really curious to know from people who have seen him. Is he a poor pick and roll defender because he lacks quickness like Al or is he just out of position or lacks I.Q.? Is he a poor rim protector for similar reasons?

The similarities to Al worry me... Similar size, build... Both undersized at the 5, both have great offensive arsenals, but both are poor passers, and both are turnover prone, Vonleh was also known to be a black hole. If Vonleh can't keep up as a 5 in college or defend the p&r he can't play the 3 in the NBA

Vonleh did dive for some balls in the vid and he went after some loose balls... I guess playing some defense, and putting a little effort in puts him above Al.
Click to expand...

He's a better defender out on the floor than Al Jefferson. He also has shooting range out to the college and international 3-pt. line. He's very young and an unfinished product. I think he can get better as a defender, especially as he adds more strength.
 
I think Vonleh is a combo-forward who will play out on the floor like Lamar Odom or Rashard Lewis. I wouldn't compare him to Al Jefferson.
 
Mongoose said:
Weaknesses are p&r defense, not a rim protector, poor passer, lacks explosiveness... Can someone explain to me how Vonleh isn't Al Jefferson. I admit my knowledge of him is limited. I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm really curious to know from people who have seen him. Is he a poor pick and roll defender because he lacks quickness like Al or is he just out of position or lacks I.Q.? Is he a poor rim protector for similar reasons?

The similarities to Al worry me... Similar size, build... Both undersized at the 5, both have great offensive arsenals, but both are poor passers, and both are turnover prone, Vonleh was also known to be a black hole. If Vonleh can't keep up as a 5 in college or defend the p&r he can't play the 3 in the NBA

Vonleh did dive for some balls in the vid and he went after some loose balls... I guess playing some defense, and putting a little effort in puts him above Al.
Click to expand...

That video was pre-combine and the lack of explosiveness was something i disputed in the draftees thread for awhile, i think he disproved a bit of that with a 37" vertical jump, only 2" less than 'Air' Gordon. Al Jefferson for comparison jumped 30" at the combine.

Vonleh was a point forward before he got to IU where he was asked to play a new position, Center, accounting for some of the issues, alot of his issues are fixable and can be attributed to youth. he needs to learn defense, he has the footspeed for P+R defense and in general is much more mobile and active than Al. If you see enough of his game footage theres some spectacular blocks that you dont see from Al, like (0:55) on the video i posted on this page, he takes the ball coast to coast after the block

also Noah doesnt need that space in the middle of the floor, or demand the ball like Al does, you dont have to run any plays for him, he can shoot 3's and attack closeouts using his first step. Al's game is more bodying people and footwork, something that Noah could develop but is probably years away so its really not the best comparison, Al Jefferson was bigbodied in HS and when he came into the league, Noah was skinny and added a ton of muscle, their body types and positions are bit different Al is listed at 289lbs this year, i could never see Noah being that large..(though id have said the same of Shawn Kemp)
 
For the record, I think Vonleh and Randle are clearly the best players at the #5 pick.


Vonleh possess a lot of the physical attributes as well as shooting touch that is very similar to Chris Bosh. They even seem to have the same laid back temperament. By all accounts he is going to be a decent player, if not a very good player.


Randle on the other hand is big and strong and is going to fight for you on the floor every-single-night. He was the leader of that UK team that went to the Finals game no question about it. His leadership alone will likely lift the level of play of your team as a whole. On top of that he'll give you 19pt, 8reb every game once he starts to get going.


If we're left with picking these 2, it will be the job of the GM who have seen them more than we do to determine who is the better fit for our team. While I'm leaning towards Randle, I won't be unhappy with neither of them tbh.
 
correction on my previous post.

handsize
randle - 8.75 / 8.25 inch
vonleh - 9.75 / 11.75 inch

how's even this possible? human body is so weird
 
jazzfan1971 said:
I'm terrified of Randle. He's got bust written all over him.
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I think he'll succeed and be very good. I just don't see him as great.

Vonleh could either be a perennial all-star or take the path of Marvin Williams. Bosh was also a good comparison. Does Vonleh have teh drive to succeed, especially on a team of softies like Utah? This is the ONLY reason I'd ever be in favor of Randle over Vonleh...the hope Julius could bring a little nasty and get Favors, Kanter and Hayward to play with attitude every night.
 
Core4 said:
I think he'll succeed and be very good. I just don't see him as great.

Vonleh could either be a perennial all-star or take the path of Marvin Williams. Bosh was also a good comparison. Does Vonleh have teh drive to succeed, especially on a team of softies like Utah? This is the ONLY reason I'd ever be in favor of Randle over Vonleh...the hope Julius could bring a little nasty and get Favors, Kanter and Hayward to play with attitude every night.
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That's the clincher for me. Randle & Vonleh are very close, but I just don't want another Bosh clone. He would never have won all those titles if it wasn't for DWade and LeBron. He is at best the 3rd option on that team. He doesn't lead. He's very passive.


This young team of ours is ready to burst - and we need someone like Randle to really crank it up and play CRAZY play MAD.
 
I don't know who to like at 5 anymore. There is a pretty good case for everyone 3-8.

I'm still hoping for Jabari. We've gotta find a way to trade for him.
 
This draft is so similar to the 2004 draft

Wiggins-James (athletically from another world)
Embiid-Darko (Foreign C, I think Embiid will be good though)
Parker-Anthony (Great offensive SF, limited Defense and passing, although I think Parker will be a better team player)
Vonleh-Bosh (Big, athletic 4 that can shoot Vonleh much more athletic, although not as much offensive skill yet)
Smart-Dwade (undersized SG that can get to the rim. Wade better shooter, Smart better defender)

Not saying the players this year will be as good (or as bad as Darko) but the top 5 could fall very similar to what it did in 2003 with similar players, only this year you add Randle, Exum, Gordon, and a lot of better options late in the lottery.
 
Right now my Draft order is

Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Exum
Gordon
Vonleh
Smart
Randle

We'll have our choice of at least 4 of those guys. Not a bad spot to be in.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
LOL.. and how did you come to this fine conclusion???
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Many reasons.

- Only uses his left. NBA defenses will constantly force him right limiting what he can do.
- Struggles vs. size. He's not a leaper or particularily long. He had trouble in college against bigger players and will no doubt be facing bigger defenders most nights in the NBA.
- Bully ball. He used his strength to score inside in college. That advantage will be mostly negated in the pros. And he doesn't have much of an outside shot to fall back on either.
- BBIQ. I don't think he's particularily good at finding the open man or knowing when to pass. He looked like somewhat of a black hole to me, often times attacking 2, 3, 4 even 5 defenders often to just have the ball stripped.
- Lastly, I just don't think the track record of PFs that play below the rim and don't have a killer 3pt shot has been that good.

Oh, and one last thing. When I watched him use spin moves it looked like he was hooking a lot and when he was clearing space under the rim it looked like an offensive foul to me. So, even the thing he's best at, scoring inside, I believe will be limited moreso in the pros by offensive foul calls.
 
Mongoose said:
Weaknesses are p&r defense, not a rim protector, poor passer, lacks explosiveness... Can someone explain to me how Vonleh isn't Al Jefferson. I admit my knowledge of him is limited. I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm really curious to know from people who have seen him. Is he a poor pick and roll defender because he lacks quickness like Al or is he just out of position or lacks I.Q.? Is he a poor rim protector for similar reasons?

The similarities to Al worry me... Similar size, build... Both undersized at the 5, both have great offensive arsenals, but both are poor passers, and both are turnover prone, Vonleh was also known to be a black hole. If Vonleh can't keep up as a 5 in college or defend the p&r he can't play the 3 in the NBA

Vonleh did dive for some balls in the vid and he went after some loose balls... I guess playing some defense, and putting a little effort in puts him above Al.
Click to expand...


He's 18 so theres that.
 
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