Yep, not sure why there is a debate. Ingles did not get offered 15 million. Coulda, woulda shoulda but didnt.
Woj: Joe Ingles is finalizing deal to return to the Utah Jazz
- Thread starter MDAV28
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Yep, not sure why there is a debate. Ingles did not get offered 15 million. Coulda, woulda shoulda but didnt.
NAOS
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Thought experiment:
If you have a partial view of some mountains while looking through the lens of a fixed viewing scope, and see no smoke, is that conclusive evidence that there are no fires burning in those mountains?
Please stop speaking as if you know what happened.
Bawse Dawg
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Ok but in that case Cy made an impossible to lose bet.
"I bet Ingles gets offered a max contract"
*signs for not max contract*
"Well how do you know he didn't or wouldn't have!"
"I bet Ingles gets offered a max contract"
*signs for not max contract*
"Well how do you know he didn't or wouldn't have!"
D
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I'm not sure Ingles would've been kept if we gave Hill the offer he wanted-- another reason to be thankful for DL.
Ingles thoroughly outplayed JJ Redick and is being paid nearly half the amount. Another W for the Jazz.
My only hope for Joe is for him to increase his three point shooting clip. Please Joe, let's see 2.4 3PG.
Ingles thoroughly outplayed JJ Redick and is being paid nearly half the amount. Another W for the Jazz.
My only hope for Joe is for him to increase his three point shooting clip. Please Joe, let's see 2.4 3PG.
I said 15 million.....
We didnt even bet anything lol. I think it's a push. He never formally talked to, or entertained, any other team. I don't think it's a coincidence that the rumored deal for Ingles would be 60/4 and he ended up signing with Utah for the same years, but with a slight discount.
Did you read the debunking of the 60/4 Orlando rumor that was posted?
I dont expect a team to admit to wanting to sign a player they werent able to even talk to. That doesn't look good to players who you will talk to or your current players.
fishonjazz
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Exactly
Some people don't know how bets work I guess.
I think if I made a formal bet another team would offer Ingles 15 million a year, but Ingles and his camp didnt even talk to other teams before accepting a Utah offer, then the bet should be a push.
fishonjazz
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If you went to a casino and bet money that ingles would get a 15 million dollar offer and then he never got a 15 million dollar offer, for whatever the reason, you would lose the bet.
The key thing in the bet and the result of the bet is whether he got offered 15 million dollars or not. The reasons why he did or didn't don't matter.
That's how bets work.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Cy probably lost the bet; but he probably lost it on a technicality. The ****ing ink is barely dry and everybody is claiming they have enough evidence to bury him. There's just as much evidence that Ingles likely gave a discount.
If I were Cy, I'd say let's settle this bet in a couple of months. Until then, let's see if any news breaks... because none of us know ****.
If I were Cy, I'd say let's settle this bet in a couple of months. Until then, let's see if any news breaks... because none of us know ****.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
^smartypants says nothing about the time scale. And, per usual, is satisfied as can be with an absolute dearth of information.
I am not. There was no official offer. Maybe it was suggested or maybe he would have got one if he didnt sign with Jazz so soon. I think Cy was correct about what his market value was and that could be debated but the bet was an offer from what I read.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
most offers only become "official" if they're signed and reported. You have no idea of any initial negotiations, where they started at, etc. The idea that Joe and his agent didn't even get a litmus of where the market was at, and then signed immediately on the 1st day of free agency after negotiating only with DL, is the flimsiest idea you can come up with for this story. It didn't happen that way in real life.
Cy's bet involved him making a positive claim "Ingles WILL get an offer of 15M" it requires him to be able to show that such an offer was made. If he can't prove it he loses the bet. Its not a push, its not up in the air. Either he shows that a 15M offer was made or he loses the bet.
As Fish has been saying, that's how bets work.
Sent from my SM-J700P using JazzFanz mobile app
NAOS
Well-Known Member
this was less than 24 hours ago, boyee. Why don't we wait to see if anything comes up through the froth before we bury the possibility of such a positive claim emerging? I'm sick of the collective lack of patience. Everywhere.
I guess maybe there is a chance they made an offer to him and he didn't accept it. Although there is a lot of proof that they didn't but that is debatable. It is very likely that numbers were discussed with teams but that is not an offer. But there is 0 evidence of an actual offer for $15 million. There is a proof that he got an offer for less. It seems pretty cut and dry. A litmus of where the market is at is not an offer.
Did Inlges give another team a chance to give him an actual offer? It sounds like him and his agent had an idea of his worth based on conversations with teams but those are not offers. Did LAC offer him that much? Well not officially since they didn't have the room to offer him 15 mil. Did Orlando have room to offer him that much without renouncing their FA cap holds?
Edit: just took 2 seconds to check and Orlando did not have room to offer a FA a 15 million contract. They could probably make room but that means they could not have officially. They have 92 in active salaries and 34 in cap holds.
Edit: just took 2 seconds to check and Orlando did not have room to offer a FA a 15 million contract. They could probably make room but that means they could not have officially. They have 92 in active salaries and 34 in cap holds.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
holy ****, do I have to keep explaining to you the value of time for evidence collection? Even though the outlines of an "official" offer were not tightly agreed upon, I agree that Cy has lost the bet with what we currently know. My point is that there has been so little time, that i'm not satisfied with what we know.
What team had cap space to officially offer him 15 million?