The Jazz, David Lee, and Golden State

[green]

The idea that GS would trade Lee and Barnes for Trey and a draft pick, seems ludicrous to me. Lee is a borderline All-Star who has been injured this year and overtaken by Green who has been playing like an All-Star, so despite his contract, I don't think they would give him and Barnes up for such slim pickings. Barnes is a good player / starter on a championship caliber team. I certainly wouldn't do such a deal if I were GS.

I as expecting this response a lot more than what I've been given. We give up nothing for two very good NBA players.

I find the overvaluing of draft picks fantastic.

"I have in one hand, a player that can play two positions and shoots 40% from three and a borderline allstar, and I have in hand two, a terrible PG and a bad draft pick."

Seems like an easy decision, yet most here would take the bad PG and crappy pick.

I'll say it again: if GS wants to get their salary down, and they will if they resign Green, then you take the deal and run.

Barnes > than the 12 pick.
Lee > Burke.

No brainer.

The real question is this:

Why would GS make such a lopsided trade? Right now, if they resign their players and Green gets max dollars, they will pay 50 million in taxes and own the highest payroll EVER. If they move Lee, they will be able to use their exceptions to sign players.

If they move Lee for Burke, they immediately upgrade their backup PG spot (or so they think, lol). They move Barnes with Lee to give the team taking Lee a reason to do so. BUT, if GS is going to give up someone as good as Barnes, Trey Burke won't cut it. Hence the pick.

It's a great trade for Utah. By bringing on Lee and Barnes, they look like this:

Exum/????/Cotton
Hayward/Burks/Millsap
Barnes/Hood/Ingles
Favors/Booker/Barnes
Gobert/Favors/Lee

Utah has cap room to then fill out the end of the bench. Once they are over the cap they can then go out and use the 5 million exception to get a get PG.

Next summer, 15 million comes off the cap, they can make a decision on Barnes.

What I find funny is that everyone's hesitation for bringing in Barnes is you are worried about his cost. Don't we want him to become a max player? Wouldn't trading a 12 pick and Burke for a max player be EXACTLY what we want?

Wouldn't that be the sign of a GREAT trade for Utah?

But no, we are in love with a 12 pick, where Alec Burks, a bench guy, is more alluring than Barnes, a potential max player.

I stand by my post. If GS needs to move Lee, and they do, use them to better yourself.

Who is a FA that we could sign that is better and has more potential than Barnes?

This deal is a no brainer for Utah.

 

[green]

Also, I keep hearing cap room as a reason to not do the trade. Who can we sign with our 11 million in cap room that is as good as Lee AND Barnes?

 

[My2Cents]

Giving up THREE significant assets in the #12 pick, Burke AND our cap space in order to shore up our deepest position with Barnes and get a 1yr rental in Lee? Seriously is Harrison an all-star worth all that? Hood can be every bit the shooter. If we want to spend money on another wing why not just get Danny Green? Look at his regular season shooting percentage. AND we'd still have the #12 to get a young big, Burke to be a backup or future piece.

Btw, if you've used up all our cap space by taking on Lee how do you sign a veteran PG? Maybe JL III would be available for the vet minimum ��

Exactly right.

 

[NAOS]

you see why I'm sure green is a coke addict? Sheesh

 

[8]

I find the overvaluing of draft picks fantastic.

"I have in one hand, a player that can play two positions and shoots 40% from three and a borderline allstar, and I have in hand two, a terrible PG and a bad draft pick."

Who you got in the one hand? Because it sure as hell isn't Harrison Barnes. He is only a borderline allstar when his mommy tells him he is.

I find your overvaluing of Harrison Barnes fantastic.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

lol. This is classic. So you'd keep a #12 pick over Barnes? You do realize that when you draft at #12, you are hoping that your pick is half the player Barnes is. But, you value that pick more?

Ever heard of the phrase, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"?

Barnes would be our best three point shooter. He can be our stretch 4. He can start at SF, push Hayward to the SG spot. He works great in this offense. Barnes is everything we hope Hood can become. He would be our wet dream if we picked him at 12.

Yet you value the pick over a known quantity?

Uhhhh. Ok.

I bet you were against trading Kanter for Harden as well. lol. That turned out well.

My hell! Hack! This is ur worst alt ever!! Come clean!!!! Now!! GS needs to give us a pick to take David Lee!! How good do u think Barns is?! Are u really this stupid. I've said it many times!! If we add another wing, he better be a star!! We are wasting a roster spot considering we have three guys as good or better then Barns, and on top of that we have to take Lee who has a bad contract and on the decline who's defense rivals Boozer, and give them a lottery pick. Are u ****ing insane!!!!

Hack please delete ur account and while ur at it ur Hack account!

 

[NAOS]

There was a rumor that David Lee would be coming to Utah. Many of us wondered why would Utah take on his contract. I wondered out loud if Barnes would be a part of that deal.

Well, I read this tonight from Zach Lowe:

"But their cap sheet is structured so that every time someone is due a raise, another big deal comes off the books. The Dubs can max out Green this summer, re-sign Stephen Curry to a $30 million mega-max deal in two years, and — if they play their cards right — still have enough money to nab a big free agent at some point during that process. It may cost them Harrison Barnes, but that’s a trade-off the Warriors will make if they have to."

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/winners-and-losers-in-the-nba-playoffs/

Boom. There you go. If GS wants to clear cap room, this is a way to do sign Green, and clear room right now:

Utah trades Burke and their pick to GS for David Lee and Harrison Barnes. Why does GS do this? Two reasons:

1 - They are going to lose Barnes this year or next year. They can't keep him. He will be too expensive, and Lowe illustrates this above.

2 - This move can get them down to 60 million, 7 million under the cap. They can then add some vets to help them win another title. Plus they add a draft pick. Plus Livingston has been terrible for them. Burke may be an upgrade for GS.

Why does Utah do this? They do take on Lee for a year, but they clear 15 million the summer of 2016. They get a year or two trial run on Barnes, who is a valuable player. Better than anyone they can get on the market. This also doesn't affect Exum's development. Utah would still need another vet PG, but would have added a big and a potential very, very good player.

After this trade, GS would have a lottery pick and a cap number of 60 million.

I'd do this if I were Utah. Look at this team:

Exum/vet PG/Cotton
Hayward/Burks
Barnes/Hood
Favors/Booker/Lee
Gobert/Favors

That team makes the playoffs. I really, really like that team.

I really liked this part

 

[RandyForRubio]

Lee is a borderline all-star? Lmao. Do some of you even watch basketball? He plays no defense! Barnes can't create a shot for himself, plays average defense and is an alright defender. He's still living off of his HS hype. He's nothing special, and he's going to want a big contract. This is a horrible trade.

 

[hawkeye]

Halfway through the 2014/2015 season, I would have done this trade in a heart beat. I remember a few years back the hype surrounding Barnes was crazy. "the next Kevin Durant" is what some people were saying about him. Though I still think he has room to improve (he is the 5th option in their starting lineup behind Curry, Thompson, Green and Bogut), I think best case scenario is he is a solid bench player. I'd give him a step up on Elijah Milsap, but not as good as Joe Ingles.

So would I do this trade now? No, not unless we were getting a better asset. Lee would be a great back up big for a year since we don't have Tomic coming now, and I think that would make us better for the year. Barnes is in no way an upgrade to our bench rotation of Wings. We can find a hustle guy from the Dleague to fill that roll behind Hayward, Burks, Hood and Ingles and not have to waste assets in doing so.

 

[Crawlnstall]

I really don't care for this trade. I havent watched a lot of Barnes but he seems kinda meh to me. Hard to judge how good a guy is when he is 'hidden' in a line up of complete studs. And someone mentioned that competition for Rodney Hood would be good for him...he will have some competition in Burks when he is back and healthy

 

[green]

22 year old who hits 40% from three and has the fourth most minutes on one of the greatest teams of all time is a solid bench player?

Wow.

A 27 year old Ingles is better than a 22 year old Barnes?

Yikes.

I dunno. Maybe I'm overrating Snyder. Barnes is a great piece on a all time great team. Ingles is a borderline NBA player. Burke is a borderline NBA player. Odds are the 12th pick will be a borderline NBA player.

I just don't see the hate.

This honestly reminds me of when I wanted Brewer gone and was flamed to no extent because Brewer was going to be this great player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I love that Lee is a borderline All-Star and that Barnes is a max player and Burks is just a measly bench player. Burks is a better player than the other two imo.

If we had Barnes he'd be our 4th wing and play some small ball 4. Lee is like Boozer... he'll put up some numbers but he'll almost always give up more than he gets. I don't know if Lee has ever actually helped a team win games.

The #12 pick doesn't have a great track record, but we can get more for it than this... you don't just give extra value in a trade because you feel picks are overrated. That's what stupid teams do... NY and Brooklyn being prime examples.

If we did want to move the #12 I'd rather go after Lowry... He fills a position of need and is a top 10 player at his position. Also is signed to a reasonable deal going forward.

If we found no takers for our unguaranteed players and picks that we liked and everyone turned down our free agent dollars I wouldn't be opposed to swapping our cap space for Lee and Barnes... I would try to get a pick out of it too. This deal couldn't be completed prior to or during the draft anyway.

 

[green]

So, we have threads with people wanting to trade #12 for Batum, but everyone hates Barnes, a younger, cheaper, better version of Batum?

We have people with banana stands over Tomic, but everyone hates Lee?

You realize that Tomic's ceiling is a crappy version of Lee, right?

I don't get this at all.

We haven't even talked about the culture that Lee and Barnes would bring to Utah. Those two have won. They know what it takes to win every night.

 

[nightmare3983]

22 year old who hits 40% from three and has the fourth most minutes on one of the greatest teams of all time is a solid bench player?

Wow.

A 27 year old Ingles is better than a 22 year old Barnes?

Yikes.

I dunno. Maybe I'm overrating Snyder. Barnes is a great piece on a all time great team. Ingles is a borderline NBA player. Burke is a borderline NBA player. Odds are the 12th pick will be a borderline NBA player.

I just don't see the hate.

This honestly reminds me of when I wanted Brewer gone and was flamed to no extent because Brewer was going to be this great player.

I wouldn't say that Ingles is better than Barnes, but green, I think you're overrating Barnes. He does all right playing alongside the Splash Brothers, but would he even play as well here?

 

[green]

I love that Lee is a borderline All-Star and that Barnes is a max player and Burks is just a measly bench player. Burks is a better player than the other two imo.

If we had Barnes he'd be our 4th wing and play some small ball 4. Lee is like Boozer... he'll put up some numbers but he'll almost always give up more than he gets. I don't know if Lee has ever actually helped a team win games.

The #12 pick doesn't have a great track record, but we can get more for it than this... you don't just give extra value in a trade because you feel picks are overrated. That's what stupid teams do... NY and Brooklyn being prime examples.

If we did want to move the #12 I'd rather go after Lowry... He fills a position of need and is a top 10 player at his position. Also is signed to a reasonable deal going forward.

If we found no takers for our unguaranteed players and picks that we liked and everyone turned down our free agent dollars I wouldn't be opposed to swapping our cap space for Lee and Barnes... I would try to get a pick out of it too. This deal couldn't be completed prior to or during the draft anyway.

Barnes would be our 4th wing? Lol.

He has the fourth highest minutes for GS. One of the greatest teams of all time. But, yeah, he'd be fourth best wing (our 7th best player) on a crappy non playoff team.

Right.

Lee would come in to be our 4th-5th big. Favors and Booker and Barnes would man the PF spot. Gobert and Favors would play C. Lee would get what was left.

Lowry? We know Barnes would fit in. Our goal is to become GS. Signs point to a better chance Lowry would not fit in, especially not long term, and especially if Exum pans out. Lowry is a stop gap. Barnes could be a long term piece.

I don't agree with you at all.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Harrison shoots uncontested threes off of kick outs from Curry and Thompson... it shouldn't surprise anyone he is shooting 40% this year. He also had limited attempts this year... he only gets about 2.5 attempts per game. He isn't a deadeye shooter with a quick release. He is completely reliant on other people getting him shots. He'd be our 4th best wing.

 

[hawkeye]

22 year old who hits 40% from three and has the fourth most minutes on one of the greatest teams of all time is a solid bench player?

Wow.

A 27 year old Ingles is better than a 22 year old Barnes?

Yikes.

I dunno. Maybe I'm overrating Snyder. Barnes is a great piece on a all time great team. Ingles is a borderline NBA player. Burke is a borderline NBA player. Odds are the 12th pick will be a borderline NBA player.

I just don't see the hate.

This honestly reminds me of when I wanted Brewer gone and was flamed to no extent because Brewer was going to be this great player.

Let me explain my thoughts as to why I said that. Clearly Barnes can become a better player than Ingles. I HIGHLY doubt that he ever becomes a better player than Hayward, Burks, or Hood. So if we took him he would be buried in the wing rotation. Ingles is a solid glue guy who is great for our team both on and off the court and is very affordable.
Besides why would Barnes want to go from being a starter to being buried in our group of wings? Long term this is a weak trade. If we are going to take chances on potential, I'd much rather invest in a PG than waste it on a wing. We have already invested in Hayward, Burks, and Hood. Why would we do it for Barnes and a years rental of David Lee?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Now this GS team is best all time? Thanks hack

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Barnes would be our 4th wing? Lol.

He has the fourth highest minutes for GS. One of the greatest teams of all time. But, yeah, he'd be fourth best wing (our 7th best player) on a crappy non playoff team.

Right.

Lee would come in to be our 4th-5th big. Favors and Booker and Barnes would man the PF spot. Gobert and Favors would play C. Lee would get what was left.

Lowry? We know Barnes would fit in. Our goal is to become GS. Signs point to a better chance Lowry would not fit in, especially not long term, and especially if Exum pans out. Lowry is a stop gap. Barnes could be a long term piece.

I don't agree with you at all.

So you are putting Barnes in ahead of Burks and Hood when it is clear we need more creators on the perimeter?

How the hell do you know Barnes would fit in and Lowry wouldn't? Barnes is still trying to establish his value and has every damned incentive to put himself ahead of the team. Lowry has already made his money and is a top ten player at his position. If Exum pans out it will be in a year or two... means Lowry would be a 2 or 3 year contributor... in this CBA that is long-term. Also there is a chance that someone offers Barnes a contract we don't want to match and he becomes a one year stop gap.

I'm done posting in this thread... It is clear you see Barnes much differently than me and many other posters and that difference will never be reconciled.

 

[hawkeye]

Barnes would be our 4th wing? Lol.

He has the fourth highest minutes for GS. One of the greatest teams of all time. But, yeah, he'd be fourth best wing (our 7th best player) on a crappy non playoff team.

Right.

Lee would come in to be our 4th-5th big. Favors and Booker and Barnes would man the PF spot. Gobert and Favors would play C. Lee would get what was left.

Lowry? We know Barnes would fit in. Our goal is to become GS. Signs point to a better chance Lowry would not fit in, especially not long term, and especially if Exum pans out. Lowry is a stop gap. Barnes could be a long term piece.

I don't agree with you at all.

Isn't our goal to just be the best team, and not just a version of whatever team is the best at the moment?

Look don't get me wrong, GS is the team i'm pulling for to win it this year. They are insanely fun to watch, and have been my second favorite team this year. I'm not just being biased because I am a Jazz fan. I do not see his upside as higher than Burks, Hood, or Hayward.