Start Mitchell at the Point.

[LoPo]

Some context would help, as the whole team has been on a semi-slump to start the season. What teams was it against?

Losses versus:
Bucks before he got hurt
Indiana
Miami
Memphis
Philly
Rockets
Spurs

Tougher opponents but the whole notion that he when he plays/shoots great we win is kind of bogus. I just don't think there is any correlation between having good Rubio makes us win and having bad Rubio us makes us lose or Vice Versa.

 

[idiot]

Our offense does run better with Rubio running the PG according to stats, but you also have to factor in that a much worse player is coming in at SG to fill in for Mitchell. If we had a Mitchell level player at SG to fill in our team would be much much better. If we had a PG that could run the offense and shoot well we would also be better.

This is the real issue. If we can improve on Rubio/Exum (whichever you don't particularly like), we should try to. If not, then we might as well keep him. He does (they do) does some good stuff. Neither are ideal but neither are worthless, and improving on them is not as easy as many imagine.

 

[idiot]

I just don't think there is any correlation between having good Rubio makes us win and having bad Rubio us makes us lose or Vice Versa.

I haven't looked at the stats, but my sense is that you're right this year. This narrative, I think, was more accurate last season, but it's hung around this year.

Edit: yes, last year his TS% was .577 in wins, .473 in losses.

 

[RRJazz]

Its not the threes that arent open its the inside. Because players dont guard Rubio on the perimeter. They sag off him and go under on all the screens set for him. I agree that both Favors/Gobert are also a spacing issue when you dont have a PG that can shoot. But Favors hardly plays with the starting unit for that reason. But Favors also gets guarded more tightly on the perimeter than Rubio statistically, which is pretty sad. If we had a 3 point shooting center than Rubio could work, but we dont. If you believe he will become a good 3 point shooter than I could see your point. I dont believe he ever will be. His shot is ugly and too inconsistent. He will get hot now and then but it will never be reliable.

Rubio does not improve every month. On average he is better in the second half 3 years in a row but he is still up and down. He is better when our schedule is easier against worse teams and more rest. Last year with 0 days rest his net rating was -7.6, 1 day rest +6.2, 2 days rest +7.7. His FG% followed the same path.

"But Favors also gets guarded more tightly on the perimeter than Rubio statistically, which is pretty sad."
Stats are helpful but don't tell the whole story because they don't take into account certain things. For instance, I showed a highlight video a few posts ago. Rubio made 2 open 3 pointers:
1(4:40) Ingles, Rubio, and Gobert run a play perfectly that's drawn to get Rubio the open 3.
2 (the very next play) Defenders have switched, Paul George is on Rubio, Abrines on Korver in the corner. Abrines leaves Korver open (Korver!!) to help in the paint because he expects an inside pass to Gobert. The pass goes to Rubio. George is more worried by Gobert inside and Korver in the corner, is caught in no man's land and doesn't get to Rubio fast enough. Open 3.

How many plays do the Jazz run to get Favors an open 3? None.

Regarding your opinion on the future. I respect it. I respect anyone who thinks Rubio is who he is and will always be this inconsistent. I admit my opinions are based on faith.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

And if the Spurs played them over and over he would stick to that strategy and it would work out more often than not.

Nah. Rubio shoots a respectable 1.12 ppp on wide open 3 point shots. Let them continue slacking off him.

Besides, as to spacing, we are talking about no more than an extra step in most weak side situations where defense recovering is still possible. It's not like teams treat him like he's Gobert at the arc, or give him the Ronnie Brewer treatment. Rubio helps space enough off-ball, and his search dribble helps create opportunities that otherwise wouldnt open up (has anyone else noticed DM use that search dribble since being put in at the point?).

 

[RRJazz]

Compare that with October and November FGM/FGA:

0/4 - BOO
5/12 - Meh
1/8 - BOO
1/8- BOO
8/14 - NEAT!
2/9- BOO
2/6 - Meh
9/17- NEAT!
3/10- BOO
1/10- BOO
3/13- BOO
7/13- NEAT!
3/11- BOO
3/9- BOO
4/8- NEAT!
6/13- NEAT!
10/13- NEAT!
4/15- BOO
3/12- BOO
11/16- NEAT!
2/8- BOO
0/9- BOO
5/11- Meh

Plenty of games with 0 - 4 makes while shooting 8 - 13 shots in most games. Lots of BOOOOs.

Also, we are the 25th best team as far as first quarter scoring goes (26.4 pts avg - 6th worst team in the league) and we have had record low scoring games twice this season. In the last 3 games we have bumped that average to 29.3 EVEN WITH a 24 point game in one of them. That ties us for 13th best. We aren't starting games off with elite scoring and we are playing weaker competition at home and sure it's limited data but it's a trend I like.

Finally, POINT DIFFERENTIAL after the first quarter... we are averaging +1.2 in 2018/19. We have been a +4.0 in the last 3 games. Our 4th quarter has been +0.2 on the season and we are +5.7 in the last 3 games. Again, just a trend and against lessor competition, but let's watch it. Those are minutes that Rubio typically has been playing and that marks a stark contrast in our performance.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-1st-quarter-margin
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-4th-quarter-margin

Based on those 2 months, Rubio should have been traded asap. He sucked. But QS kept his confidence and Rubio looked way better in December as I showed. Pretty much like last season, only the improvement started 1 month and a half earlier this time.

Your first quarter stats comparing with Rubio and now without:
1 Strength of Schedule.
2 Rubio sucking for 2 months.
3 The whole team starting sloooow and playing better now. For instance, Mitchell couldn't make a 3 to save his life but a couple of weeks ago (before the Rubio injury) he found the shooting stroke.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Nah. Rubio shoots a respectable 1.12 ppp on wide open 3 point shots. Let them continue slacking off him.

Besides, as to spacing, we are talking about no more than an extra step in most weak side situations where defense recovering is still possible. It's not like teams treat him like he's Gobert at the arc, or give him the Ronnie Brewer treatment. Rubio helps space enough off-ball, and his search dribble helps create opportunities that otherwise wouldnt open up (has anyone else noticed DM use that search dribble since being put in at the point?).

Stats and my eyes show he is getting the Brewer treatment, especially when games get close at the end. It really hurts to have 2 or 3 of those types of players on the court at once. Give Rubio 4 shooters and I think he is going to be solid. Give him 1 or 2 shooters? Not so good. Plus I would prefer someone at that position that plays decent defense.

 

[Ron Mexico]

"But Favors also gets guarded more tightly on the perimeter than Rubio statistically, which is pretty sad."
Stats are helpful but don't tell the whole story because they don't take into account certain things. For instance, I showed a highlight video a few posts ago. Rubio made 2 open 3 pointers:
1(4:40) Ingles, Rubio, and Gobert run a play perfectly that's drawn to get Rubio the open 3.
2 (the very next play) Defenders have switched, Paul George is on Rubio, Abrines on Korver in the corner. Abrines leaves Korver open (Korver!!) to help in the paint because he expects an inside pass to Gobert. The pass goes to Rubio. George is more worried by Gobert inside and Korver in the corner, is caught in no man's land and doesn't get to Rubio fast enough. Open 3.

How many plays do the Jazz run to get Favors an open 3? None.

Regarding your opinion on the future. I respect it. I respect anyone who thinks Rubio is who he is and will always be this inconsistent. I admit my opinions are based on faith.

So George sags off Rubio big time and he hits the shot? Great, but thats the gamble that George should take and does. If/when Rubio misses that it hurts our team. Our team runs a lot of plays to get anyone open for 3. Sometimes that goes to Favors sometimes it goes to Rubio. Fact is my eyes show Favors being guarded more closely and stats show that as well.

Rubio might get better at shooting. He would have to change his shot and work at it hard. He has been in the league 8 years. He has been playing professional basketball for 13 years. I just dont see him drastically changing. But who knows, it happens. Maybe he should stop working out to look good all the time and worry about more important stuff. Most of the time I see him working out in other players videos, like Crowders yesterday, he is doing dumbell curls.

 

[Getting Traded]

If he would put a little more arc in his shot, and he could do this by releasing the ball a little bit lower, I think he would improve his percentage. His bricks are mostly because he either hits the front or back of the rim, arc would help that.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Compare that with October and November FGM/FGA:

0/4 - BOO
5/12 - Meh
1/8 - BOO
1/8- BOO
8/14 - NEAT!
2/9- BOO
2/6 - Meh
9/17- NEAT!
3/10- BOO
1/10- BOO
3/13- BOO
7/13- NEAT!
3/11- BOO
3/9- BOO
4/8- NEAT!
6/13- NEAT!
10/13- NEAT!
4/15- BOO
3/12- BOO
11/16- NEAT!
2/8- BOO
0/9- BOO
5/11- Meh

Plenty of games with 0 - 4 makes while shooting 8 - 13 shots in most games. Lots of BOOOOs.

Also, we are the 25th best team as far as first quarter scoring goes (26.4 pts avg - 6th worst team in the league) and we have had record low scoring games twice this season. In the last 3 games we have bumped that average to 29.3 EVEN WITH a 24 point game in one of them. That ties us for 13th best. We aren't starting games off with elite scoring and we are playing weaker competition at home and sure it's limited data but it's a trend I like.

Finally, POINT DIFFERENTIAL after the first quarter... we are averaging +1.2 in 2018/19. We have been a +4.0 in the last 3 games. Our 4th quarter has been +0.2 on the season and we are +5.7 in the last 3 games. Again, just a trend and against lessor competition, but let's watch it. Those are minutes that Rubio typically has been playing and that marks a stark contrast in our performance.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-1st-quarter-margin
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-4th-quarter-margin

Great post, thank you.

 

[Alfalfa]

So George sags off Rubio big time and he hits the shot? Great, but thats the gamble that George should take and does. If/when Rubio misses that it hurts our team. Our team runs a lot of plays to get anyone open for 3. Sometimes that goes to Favors sometimes it goes to Rubio. Fact is my eyes show Favors being guarded more closely and stats show that as well.

Rubio might get better at shooting. He would have to change his shot and work at it hard. He has been in the league 8 years. He has been playing professional basketball for 13 years. I just dont see him drastically changing. But who knows, it happens. Maybe he should stop working out to look good all the time and worry about more important stuff. Most of the time I see him working out in other players videos, like Crowders yesterday, he is doing dumbell curls.

Dumbbell curls are a worthless exercise. Many compound lifts hit the biceps. Never understood why people waste so much time on a small set of muscles.

I never train my arms.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Dumbbell curls are a worthless exercise. Many compound lifts hit the biceps. Never understood why people waste so much time on a small set of muscles.

I never train my arms.

Because most men only care about a big chest and big biceps.

They do have their place as an exercise but it's minor. For basketball players they can help with strengthening rotator cuff muscles. But they shouldn't be done often, heavy, or too many reps especially in season. Rubio loves doing them.

 

[Jazz]

First test for the jazz today since the injured players went down. The other games were pretty straight forward. I expected them to win those games. So we'll see today

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Stats and my eyes show he is getting the Brewer treatment, especially when games get close at the end. It really hurts to have 2 or 3 of those types of players on the court at once. Give Rubio 4 shooters and I think he is going to be solid. Give him 1 or 2 shooters? Not so good. Plus I would prefer someone at that position that plays decent defense.

What stats?

My eyeballs tell me he makes teams pay when left wide open. You are correct about them going under, that's not wide open. He's able to beat them off the dribble, especially with Rudy's rim running threat and it collapses 3 defenders in. I'm not a big fan of it but can't say it doesn't create open swing pass shots or set up 2ndary plays. A lot of primary action is wasted energy to gain a couple steps for 2ndary play. Rubio provides that or QS wouldn't be running what he does.

 

[Ron Mexico]

What stats?

My eyeballs tell me he makes teams pay when left wide open. You are correct about them going under, that's not wide open. He's able to beat them off the dribble, especially with Rudy's rim running threat and it collapses 3 defenders in. I'm not a big fan of it but can't say it doesn't create open swing pass shots or set up 2ndary plays. A lot of primary action is wasted energy to gain a couple steps for 2ndary play. Rubio provides that or QS wouldn't be running what he does.

The statts that i posted that show no defender is within 6+ feet of him for most shots and 90+% of his 3s. I don't think he makes them pay. He shoots well below league average on those shots.

 

[Sandman822]

A crazy Ricky Rubio stat I came across a couple of days ago when trying to see how many of Rubio's shots are at the rim vs midrange is that Rubio on assisted looked between 10 - 14 and 15 - 19 ft shoots a bad 35.0 and 38.7% respectively, but as soon as those looks become unassisted Rubio shoots an insane 65.0 and 61.3% respectively.

 

[Jazzta]

A crazy Ricky Rubio stat I came across a couple of days ago when trying to see how many of Rubio's shots are at the rim vs midrange is that Rubio on assisted looked between 10 - 14 and 15 - 19 ft shoots a bad 35.0 and 38.7% respectively, but as soon as those looks become unassisted Rubio shoots an insane 65.0 and 61.3% respectively.

Those unassisted shots are mainly when he drives to the basket or those possessions that he initiates with a screen at the top and moves in and to his left for a two, money.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

The statts that i posted that show no defender is within 6+ feet of him for most shots and 90+% of his 3s. I don't think he makes them pay. He shoots well below league average on those shots.

3.2 apg from 3 are wide open and he hits 37.3% of them. That's a good possession. He sucks when he's not wide open.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Mitchell with 28 points, 6 assists, 3 steals against a very good Clippers side.

- Damian Lillard is averaging 6 assists this season.

- Steph Curry is averaging 5.5 assists this season.

- Kemba Walker is averaging 5.7 assists this season.

Mitchell has been playing the point for 4 games.

But, nah, Mitchell isn't passing the ball well enough to start at the point.

#DominateOverNegativity

#D.O.N.

 

[NAOS]

Stats and my eyes show he is getting the Brewer treatment, especially when games get close at the end. It really hurts to have 2 or 3 of those types of players on the court at once. Give Rubio 4 shooters and I think he is going to be solid. Give him 1 or 2 shooters? Not so good. Plus I would prefer someone at that position that plays decent defense.

LMFAO Rubio is beyond decent at defense. Well. GMAFB.