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Hayward has 34.5 inch vertical!

34.5 is extremely average for a wing. Such high flyers as Matt Carroll and Marty Leunen and Coby Karl have similar verts. If Hayward becomes a player it won't be due to any advantage he gains due to his athletic ability.
 
That should just tell you how great of an athlete Cousins is that he can be so overweight and still put up strong athletic number for a center.

It truly amazes me to the extent the handfull of Hayward Homers are going to either promote this kid or ignore his deficiencies. Truly, I'm impressed.

As stated before, Hayward's lane agility test was worse than virtually any guard at his position. And was worse than several big men:

Cousins, Aldrich (you know, that center from Kansas that many compared to Greg Ostertag), Brackins (6 foot 10 bigman), Ryan Richards (7 footer from England compared to Jarron Collins), and Patterson.

In fact, Hayward's agility test score was nearly the same as Hassan Whiteside.

His wingspan and handsize isn't very good either. Worse than both Babbit's and Henry's.

Truly, are you really going to ignore all of this?

If so, then all hope for intelligent discussion has been lost. You can have an opinion, that's fine, but at least have some kind of evidence to support it. Don't expect evidence to support your already formed opinion. And certainly don't create threads trying to convince others of Hayward's athletic ability when quite honestly, it's a huge liability.

Hayward has got to beat the odds. Critics have legit concerns which are based on evidence. Which is far more than what some of you Hayward Homers have presented thus far.
 
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It truly amazes me to the extent the handfull of Hayward Homers are going to either promote this kid or ignore his deficiencies. Truly, I'm impressed.

As stated before, Hayward's lane agility test was worse than virtually any guard at his position. And was worse than several big men:

Cousins, Aldrich (you know, that center from Kansas that many compared to Greg Ostertag), Brackins (6 foot 10 bigman), Ryan Richards (7 footer from England compared to Jarron Collins), and Patterson.

In fact, Hayward's agility test score was nearly the same as Hassan Whiteside.

His wingspan and handsize isn't very good either. Worse than both Babbit's and Henry's.

Truly, are you really going to ignore all of this?

If so, then all hope for intelligent discussion has been lost. You can have an opinion, that's fine, but at least have some kind of evidence to support it. Don't expect evidence to support your already formed opinion. And certainly don't create threads trying to convince others of Hayward's athletic ability when quite honestly, it's a huge liability.

Hayward has got to beat the odds. Critics have legit concerns which are based on evidence. Which is far more than what some of you Hayward Homers have presented thus far.

I'll let you know when I see him play, measurements are just measurements. There are players who have killed the combine, and gotten killed in the NBA, and vice versa.
 
I'll let you know when I see him play, measurements are just measurements. There are players who have killed the combine, and gotten killed in the NBA, and vice versa.

I don't think any critic of Hayward has based any of their opinions completely on measurements from the combine. As much as you surf this board, you know this very well. so don't even try and paint those with question marks on Hayward as those who solely base their concerns and opinions on mere combine numbers. This is the act of someone who doesn't have any facts to backup their home boy. Loser talk.

Your failure to offer any convincing support of Hayward tells a lot. Address the concerns that many critics have, if you dare. If not, then please, don't criticize the critics for their legitimate concerns.
 
Kris Humphries had absoltely sick numbers at the combine.

You'll find very few wings with agility, wingspan, and verticals comparable to Hayward's who are still in the NBA. Do a check:

https://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pr...006&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=

Just an interesting sidenote, Morris Almond had a better agility score, vertical, wingspan, sprint score, and bench than Gordan Hayward. Was Morris ever considered more than an average athlete at the NBA level?
 
What are you criticizing him for? Besides not being an elite athlete.

This thread was focused on his athletic ability. Did you fail to recognize the title of this thread being, "Hayward has a 34.5 inch vertical?" Were you expecting us to be talking about making chocolate cake?

If you would like to know what concerns, questions, and criticisms I along with most of Jazz Nation have with Hayward, I suggest you do a search on this board. It's on the right side of the screen. Perhaps you can do an advanced search and find many people's concerns on draft day.

Unfortunately, I believe you already know these answers and are merely trying to change the subject.
 
LOL. This thread was created to prove how savvy an athlete Hayward is. Now that the claim has been proven undoubtedly false, his fans are like "wait a second, why are y'all being so harsh about Hayward's athleticism?" The fact-bearers didn't create the ******* thread. What an embarrassment.
 
Kirk Snyder...

Also, Hayward is a solid athlete, not a great one. I don't know of anyone knowledgeable that has said differently.
 
The facts are that people are making Hayward out to be a bad athlete, he isnt, he isnt elite by any means, but he has enough athletic ability to get by in the NBA.
 
Fixed, and I agree.

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Thanks scorp, for your unbelievably persuasive and intelligent contribution to this thread.

The facts are that people are making Hayward out to be a bad athlete, he isnt, he isnt elite by any means, but he has enough athletic ability to get by in the NBA.

Yeah, just the facts that he tested the worse out of the all the available wings who the Jazz were rumored to have interest in and who the Jazz could have drafted. His lane agility tested worse than several centers, wingspan is below what most wings are, strength is average at best, and on top of the many questions regarding his actual game. Yeah, just those facts. How could anyone have any doubts about Hayward with all these facts?

lget5010homer-simpson-stupid-like-a-fox-the-simpsons-poster-card1.jpg


Dwill_PwnasaurasRex, I also love how you've conveniently ignored nearly every single direct question to you in this thread. That's really awesome. It totally persuades me into believing that Hayward truly is a different player than so many of us believe he is. Thanks for dispelling any doubts I've had.
 
Pose all your "direct" questions in a list and they will be answered.

The only thing I can tell is that your mad that Hayward doesnt have huge hands. So what? His back massages wont be as awesome as we all hope for.
 
Pose all your "direct" questions in a list and they will be answered.

The only thing I can tell is that your mad that Hayward doesnt have huge hands. So what? His back massages wont be as awesome as we all hope for.

What another weak answer. Reread the forum. You're either too lazy to do so, illiterate, or already know that you cannot provide the answers. The mere fact that you've avoided every single question and have tried to change the subject multiple times I think speaks volumes.

Once again, the Hayward Homer crowd has spoken volumes today. Just check out this thread.

#1 The first poster wanted to emphasize Hayward's athleticism in a positive way.
#2 The majority of posters then post facts and observations regarding the measurements, which clearly give Hayward a not so encouraging grade.
#3 Hayward Homers change the subject, attempt to bring up Kirk Snyder, and don't address any of the points made by Hayward critics.

This thread is complete and utter fail. Failure on the part to persuade others of Hayward's encouraging athleticism. And failure on the part of those refuting the Hayward critics.

Well done my good fellows well done.

This picture hilariously describes the Hayward Homers attempts to prop up their boy and having it backfire horribly. But that's awesome, he does have a 34.5 vertical.

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For the future, you may not want to bring up Hayward's measurements again. As was shown clearly in this thread, they aren't anything to be proud of.
 
Im too lazy, I still don know what your trying to ask me. I dont consider myself a "homer" of Hayward, Im just optimistic about him, idk if he will turn out good, but I hope he will. The point Im trying to make is that measurements dont make a player, his game does. Hayward took a team to the final game and nearly won it, all that with his tiny hands.
 
max vert is only one piece of the puzzle, and if you've ever watched hayward play, you know that he's not overwhelming anybody with his athleticism. i call him a "crafty" scorer, meaning he gets his points by being creative around the basket and being guarded by guys who are more are less his peers athletically. in the NBA, when he's surrounded by superior athletes, you really have to have a consistent tool. hayward doesn't have that. spotty shooter, no real penetration moves, absolutely ZERO post game.

babbit's max vert is 37.5 and henry's is 36.5.
 
Hayward beat Babbitt in No step vertical and 3/4 sprint, for what its worth. He has alligator arms, but so does Evan Turner and that didn't stop the Sixers from drafting him second.
 
Well well,

Since I started this post, I suppose y'all won't mind if I offer some perpective. First, I guess I should say that I'm honored my post got so much attention. My thoughts were generated from the initial premise that "GH is not an athlete", therefore I was very surprised to see his Vertical being even close to some of the top athletes. I neglected his wingspan, only because it was virtually identical with Turners. So in that I'll humbly take my whipping that some of you so obviously enjoy inflicting upon those who don't spend hours upon hours reading everything about every player. That said, I did do some cross comparisons, and he does stack up favorably against some pretty elite players in more categories than just vertical jump (i.e. hand length and width were comparable to Greg Monroe, Paul George, and Babbitt--all much bigger players; his Agility scores were better than Derrick Favors and right there with Ed Davis, Stanley Robinson and WESLEY JOHNSON (not sure what Thriller was smoking)...and his Sprint was better than Favors, Patterson, and other "supposed" superior athletes.) All this coming from Draft Express site (go to "Features" tab and click "Measurement History".)

Thriller, for someone with so much "supposed" evidence at his fingertips, I saw a lot more opinion and a lot less fact in your post. You talk it up big to give yourself credibility, but you did the same thing you accused me of, namely hand picking the comparisons you wanted to make (in order to make your case). You talk about his weight, height, and bodyfat??? First, weight is an issue for almost every draft pick. Second, you think 6 ft 7 to 6 ft 8 won't work in the NBA??? News flash, he's the same height almost exactly as Paul Milsap. And lastly, his body fat is not bad. Not superior, but not a liability either. Like the weight issue, most draft prospects need to lower their body fat some.

I think the reality is that some of you want him to fail (for whatever twisted reasons), as much as I want him to succeed, so I guess time will tell. I simply prefer to be an optimist, even if sometimes a naive one. Taking into account his physical abilities (positive and negative), I still am optimistic about his overall Basketball savvy (which you can't teach), and the other "intangibles" that lead many to say he will be special (and that he was a good pick). I won't hide behind the fact that I was looking for some silver lining data that could tell me he has a chance to make it "based on science". I was disappointed in the draft pick at first, so anything positive gives me a little hope that when people say he's a "special player", I can actually believe them. But I suppose there's no way to know whether "Science" or the "X factors" will win out at the end of the day. Again, time will tell. I just have to trust (only because I don't have the time and it's not my profession) that KOC and the Jazz FO made their decision based upon some evidence. It's sad that some of you spend so much time gathering data, and yet it's still biased!!!

So, again, let's give Hayward a chance. Because we don't really have a choice anyway (as long as he stays with the team, and assuming we want to remain Jazz fans). This is a holler out to all "True" Jazz fans!
 
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