NAOS
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Celtics fans are horrible, too. But in a very different way.
Whiteside Is Going to Be Good
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gomretat
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Maybe they all went to BYU.
Small ball isn’t a way to win games as much as it’s a way to prevent losing games.
If that was the case then why didn't Ryan Smith hire them to work for the Jazz?
I mean…playing with 4-5 guys who can’t stay in front of their man and can’t/don’t rotate is a good way to lose a game.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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Oof!!! I think you’re jumping the gun a bit. It’s still very early in Udoka’s development, I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he developed into starter caliber, but he isn’t that now. I think Whiteside is still a very good player and could start on a lot of teams. I just think his attitude gets in the way. I just think it’s too soon to call for udoka over Whiteside at this time. As I’m typing this I do see a situation where Udoka could be in favor as it wouldn’t shock me if Whiteside just pulls a Raja Bell from his second stint in Utah. Other then that, no way Udoka would ever get minutes over Whiteside this year.
LogGrad98
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I think that adding Rudy Gay and Whiteside means we now field 4 legitimate starters from our bench. We could have 4 players with a legitimate shot at 6th man depending on various factors. It should give us one of, if not the, best benches in the league. Easily top 3.
Clarkson, Ingles, Gay, Whiteside along with a solid PG could be the starting 5 for a team that has a legitimate shot at the playoffs.
We should be solidly better than last year.
Clarkson, Ingles, Gay, Whiteside along with a solid PG could be the starting 5 for a team that has a legitimate shot at the playoffs.
We should be solidly better than last year.
NAOS
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For me, “solidly better” would be a function of developing and executing some versatility. You just listed ingredients laid out on the counter top...... Everything depends on how they’re combined. “Solidly better” will have to wait.
LogGrad98
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Well even just taking the basic sum of the parts, what we have now is objectively better than what we had. It gives us more versatility for making recipes too. I think "solidly better" is reasonable, with a chance to be "considerably better" or even eclipsing the previous group.
And Gobert can’t do it if his man can shoot a three and he struggles to reliably punish the mismatch. So we’d be in that hole anyway. We’ve seen it. I’ll take the chance that doing something is better than not.
NAOS
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I’m hopeful. But I can definitely see Q sticking hard to the same drop-big-all-teh-time schema.... and it biting us in the ***.
Would we be solidly better if we made it to the WCF but got thumped in 5 games? Maybe that counts as solidly better for some people. It wouldn’t raise to that level for me. That would require us to be a “hard out” in the WCF... and to do that we need to actually be more versatile, imo.
I don't think Gobert is the problem and I don't see how going small addresses the problem either. Offensively, there are only a handful of bigs who punish size mismatches. Those are the same guys who can score on Gobert in the post. Besides, the jazz had a 120 offensive rating against the Clippers. It's a defensive issue and I am seriously puzzled as to how small ball addresses the defensive issues.
We definitely have to make changes, but subbing out Gobert is not that change. It would be like subbing out Mitchell if we're struggling to score against switching defenses (we're not). You don't take out your best player by a mile because he's surrounded with traffic cones that he can't cover for. We don't play drop defense because that's the only way Gobert can play and we didn't get killed because of Gobert's inability to execute another system.
I don’t think the problem is the guy hitting the three inasmuch as Quin won’t let him commit to guarding him, and the subsequent challenge of poor perimeter defenders left without Rudy there when mentally their whole strategy is to funnel to him.
Here’s the way I see the problem with small ball:
1. Teams going small puts Rudy in an impossible position.
2. That impossible position exists only because our perimeter defense can’t do an average job.
3. Rudy can’t punish them on offense (and/or Quin hasn’t found any way to punish this [I’m in the latter camp, FYI]), so a team doesn’t sacrifice much to run 5-out.
Countering by going small does not address any of the issues above. If it does improve things, it’s only because the 5 is allowed to stick to the perimeter guy and/or the other guys are having to step up, knowing Rudy’s not there to back them up. In any case, small ball is either worse or better defensively. If it’s worse, it highlights the fact that Rudy isn’t the problem. If it’s better, it’s because of aforementioned defensive adjustment, indicting Quin’s defensive strategy with Rudy on the floor as the problem, and not Rudy. Change that defensive scheme and Rudy at the 5 defensively is better than any small ball 5 option.
Then there’s the counter that “you play small ball for offense and not defense” and we neglect the fact that the reason we lost that series was the defensive scheme above, and not offense.
I posted mine before seeing this but agree with the sentiments.
Tl;dr Quin and the perimeter defenders. But we can avoid that by invoking “health.”
I think one area where the health "excuse" holds some merit is the offensive end. Rudy really missed Conley in the LAC series and if Conley was healthy I'm not sure we'd be having this conversation about Rudy being unable to exploit mismatches. Ayton was really productive against the Clippers, but it had very little to do with him exploiting size mismatches in the way typically think that's done. Almost all of Ayton's buckets came off of dribble penetration from the Suns' guards.
As talented and skilled as Ayton is, you still don't post him up against a smaller guy. Instead, you use the mismatches on the perimeter to break the paint and then put the smaller guy in a tough help responsibility position. That is very much Conley's game, but not Mitchell. Mitchell is going to use the mismatch to find his own shot or kick out to a shooter. Mitchell is way more likely to find the shooter with a cross court pass than a dump off or lob to the big. And you know what, it works because he's an incredible talent. I just think that if Conley was healthy we would see more buckets come Gobert's way.
I don't really trust anything Quin says, I'll believe it when I see it, but I thought he did say the right things during the scrimmage about small ball. He cited Gobert as our best isolation defender and that the problem comes when we ask Rudy to not just do his job but two or three player's job at the same time. This is totally true. The Jazz were actually doing a great job against small ball lineups at the beginning of the series, and that's when LAC still had Kawhi. The series changed when the Clippers stopped involving Rudy in the main action and creating the impossible situation where he couldn't do 2-3 players' jobs at the same time.
Having said all that, Quin is responsible for this. We play the same way all year, and it works to great success. But we know it doesn't work in certain situations and you can't expect the team to suddenly flip the switch and change habits that were formed over years.
fishonjazz
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Holy **** that's the hottest take ever.One of them is supposed to be Carmelo.
This isn’t a joke. Really happened. Probably still happening. ****ing insanity.
I forgot they even acquired melo. Cause he simply doesn't register as a meaningful acquisition. I mean maybe in a negative way I guess
//r00t 4 Jazz
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The LAL have more top 5 picks on their roster than the Jazz have had in their existence.
LBJ - #1
AD - #1
Dwight - #1
Melo - #3
Westbrook #4
Heck if this was their starting 5 (it is conceivable but not probable) would it be the first time an NBA team would have a starting 5 consisting of all top 4 picks? Heck expand that to just all being on the floor at the same time doesn't need to be starting and I would guess that hasn't happened before.
Also maybe if you combined Melo and Dwight Howard that can count as a big 4?
Nah, you'd be forgetting some gems in there...
Deron Williams #3
Dante Exum #5
Armen Gilliam #2
Chris Morris #4
Derrick Favors #3
Ricky Rubio #5
Danny Manning #1
Al Jefferson #1 (in our hearts)
