Whiteside Is Going to Be Good

[Handlogten's Heros]

If Hassan continues to play well he will get a decent offer but finding a back up C who fits our needs is not easy. The Jazz were very lucky to have gotten HW on the cheap.

I doubt it. At his age he is likely locked into minimum deals. He's in the Dwight Howard mold now. If he gets slightly more... BAE maybe... its worth keeping him around.

 

[infection]

If Hassan continues to play well he will get a decent offer but finding a back up C who fits our needs is not easy. The Jazz were very lucky to have gotten HW on the cheap.

It's not that they're hard to find, it's that we don't look at the specific skillset needed and instead look at a player globally and deem them unfit. Here is a short list off the top of my head of guys who have been fairly available for cheap that can fill those needs and that role:

Andrew Bogut
Joakim Noah
Ekpe Udoh
Javale McGee

If we hadn't signed Whiteside to actually seen what he's done, he'd be a guy in a thread like this where we'd dismiss him with a "nah, he sucks." The biggest problem we got lost on was looking at Favors overall and then comparing anyone else who has more specific skills and perceiving the drop of as "Favors is so much better, _____ sucks."

 

[infection]

And I posed this question in the game thread but will ask again here: if you entirely take the cost out of it, would anyone still prefer Favors to Whiteside?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's not that they're hard to find, it's that we don't look at the specific skillset needed and instead look at a player globally and deem them unfit. Here is a short list off the top of my head of guys who have been fairly available for cheap that can fill those needs and that role:

Andrew Bogut
Joakim Noah
Ekpe Udoh
Javale McGee

If we hadn't signed Whiteside to actually seen what he's done, he'd be a guy in a thread like this where we'd dismiss him with a "nah, he sucks." The biggest problem we got lost on was looking at Favors overall and then comparing anyone else who has more specific skills and perceiving the drop of as "Favors is so much better, _____ sucks."

Add Alex Len and Dwayne Dedmon to that list.

I will say that Whiteside is so big that he stands out a little from the rest of the group. I think if you search for what like 4-5 years for a good solution... why not... IDK just pay a little more for the known solution. I doubt he gets more than the minimum... he likely gets BAE at most... if that is what it takes then pay it... its a difference of $1m or so. Its totally worth investing that amount. Go ahead and sell off Udoka and replace his spot with a second round guy... BAM!!! you saved the money to keep him.

 

[infection]

Add Alex Len and Dwayne Dedmon to that list.

I will say that Whiteside is so big that he stands out a little from the rest of the group. I think if you search for what like 4-5 years for a good solution... why not... IDK just pay a little more for the known solution. I doubt he gets more than the minimum... he likely gets BAE at most... if that is what it takes then pay it... its a difference of $1m or so. Its totally worth investing that amount. Go ahead and sell off Udoka and replace his spot with a second round guy... BAM!!! you saved the money to keep him.

Gay was TPMLE, right? So we'll still have BAE? I think we've had it open for a couple years. How much is it these days, anyway? $4.5M?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Gay was TPMLE, right? So we'll still have BAE? I think we've had it open for a couple years. How much is it these days, anyway? $4.5M?

Its like 3.7M. I honestly don't think he gets more than the minimum.

 

[LogGrad98]

And I posed this question in the game thread but will ask again here: if you entirely take the cost out of it, would anyone still prefer Favors to Whiteside?

No.

 

[Gameface]

And I posed this question in the game thread but will ask again here: if you entirely take the cost out of it, would anyone still prefer Favors to Whiteside?

I'm a big Favors fan, but no. He has health issues and clearly can't be counted on to give a full off the bench contribution on any given night.

If you could tell me that Favors would be at full physical health, pain-free and full energy for at least 15min a game then yes, Favors. But that's just not who he is right now.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

This is why we needed to evaluate what we needed from that spot a long time ago. I'm actually in the camp that we didn't have to evaluate that at all as it was painfully obvious. But we got lost on focusing on nostalgia, feel goods, and total overall talent rather than fit. We could have dodged all the nonsense by making Udoh a primary backup a long time ago and showing that you don't need high level talent, just very specific talent, to exceed in that role.

But what do I know?

Yup. I think Ekpe was the solution all along for our backup C.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yup. I think Ekpe was the solution all along for our backup C.

Which is really tough because he could have filled that role for cheap and as good of a basketball player as he is... he is a much better person and locker room dude. Talk about value.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm a big Favors fan, but no. He has health issues and clearly can't be counted on to give a full off the bench contribution on any given night.

If you could tell me that Favors would be at full physical health, pain-free and full energy for at least 15min a game then yes, Favors. But that's just not who he is right now.

I can't believe we gave him full MLE for 3 years... wild.

 

[KqWIN]

I think Ekpe was pretty unique in that he was a legit, high level defensive C but his offense was not NBA level. I would have been fine with riding it out with him as the backup on a min.

 

[Jazzman12]

Whitesides has been such a pleasant surprise, as has Paschall. I really think in attitude alone, these 2 change our competitive make-up out there on the floor come playoff time. It’s also nice to see Rudy Gay fully engaged and jumping up and down on the bench while cheering his teammates on. The dude is obviously very excited and fully engaged before he’s even been able to step on the court.

When these 3 players were added to the Jazz roster, I think Jazzfanz let out a collective “meh” as each one comes with some positives, but as a group doesn’t really do much to address the perimeter defense issues. I think this could be the classic scenario of a group being greater than the sum of its parts. Specifically with Hassan. I get so frustrated when the Jazz are unable to punish opponents down low when they go small. I think this year, we can finally see some of that.

 

[One Brow]

There's a lot of Udoh love in here, but my recollection is that he was practically a toothpick, and there is no way he'd have been able to face front-line centers in the NBA, which means he would not have been able to play with our current rotation pattern.

 

[infection]

There's a lot of Udoh love in here, but my recollection is that he was practically a toothpick, and there is no way he'd have been able to face front-line centers in the NBA, which means he would not have been able to play with our current rotation pattern.

6'10" and 245 lbs. What front-line centers would he be having trouble with? And, of those, how well did TB or Favors fare? Udoh's issue is that he's poor on offense and they can go 5-on-4, on top of bad rebounding. Other than that, he could handle 1-5 on switches, and he protected the rim better than anyone I've ever seen not named Rudy Gobert.

 

[SteakNEggs]

I hate to say it but I don't get the Epke love. Dude was an amazing human but he was absolutely unplayable during the playoffs... kind of like Niang. This current team is built more for the playoffs with guys like Whiteside and Gay.

 

[One Brow]

6'10" and 245 lbs. What front-line centers would he be having trouble with? And, of those, how well did TB or Favors fare?

Favors fared well enough that he was in the top 25 of centers when looking areas such as VOR and similar measures. Not as good as Whiteside, but much better than Udoh ever was.

Udoh's issue is that he's poor on offense and they can go 5-on-4, on top of bad rebounding. Other than that, he could handle 1-5 on switches, and he protected the rim better than anyone I've ever seen not named Rudy Gobert.

Things were so much better then, amiright?

 

[gomretat]

It's not that they're hard to find, it's that we don't look at the specific skillset needed and instead look at a player globally and deem them unfit. Here is a short list off the top of my head of guys who have been fairly available for cheap that can fill those needs and that role:

Andrew Bogut
Joakim Noah
Ekpe Udoh
Javale McGee

If we hadn't signed Whiteside to actually seen what he's done, he'd be a guy in a thread like this where we'd dismiss him with a "nah, he sucks." The biggest problem we got lost on was looking at Favors overall and then comparing anyone else who has more specific skills and perceiving the drop of as "Favors is so much better, _____ sucks."

Happy to agree to disagree. It is not just the talent level - it is them wanting to come to Utah, comfortable with what we will pay, and comfortable with 15 minutes a night. The back up C is key to what we are trying to do and I think some folks are way off in how easy it is to find those folks. Hope I am wrong and very glad to have HW.

 

[infection]

I hate to say it but I don't get the Epke love. Dude was an amazing human but he was absolutely unplayable during the playoffs... kind of like Niang. This current team is built more for the playoffs with guys like Whiteside and Gay.

The argument is that he would have been an already-there stand-in solution to whatever it was we did for the past 2+ years. If the argument is that he's unplayable in the playoffs... well, we had Ed Davis, Tony Bradley, and Derrick Favors. All of those were unplayable, and the defense suffered. Whiteside is much more well-rounded. The argument is more about prior years and how we botched this whole thing by not looking for the right type of guy (such as a Whiteside) to backup Rudy, and instead pretended that Favors was a rim protector or poor man's Rudy.

Happy to agree to disagree. It is not just the talent level - it is them wanting to come to Utah, comfortable with what we will pay, and comfortable with 15 minutes a night. The back up C is key to what we are trying to do and I think some folks are way off in how easy it is to find those folks. Hope I am wrong and very glad to have HW.

With the exception of McGee, all of those guys were looking for contracts in the league. And again, if we didn't have Whiteside right now we'd either being saying he sucks or saying some variant of "he'd never come here." The beauty of viewing things through this lens is the belief that we're absolutely preforming at the pinnacle of our capacity from an executive and managerial sense, and there's absolutely no way we could improve on status quo because if there was we would have already done it, and our inaction is therefore proof that it can't be done.

 

[str8line]

Whitesides has been such a pleasant surprise, as has Paschall. I really think in attitude alone, these 2 change our competitive make-up out there on the floor come playoff time. It’s also nice to see Rudy Gay fully engaged and jumping up and down on the bench while cheering his teammates on. The dude is obviously very excited and fully engaged before he’s even been able to step on the court.

When these 3 players were added to the Jazz roster, I think Jazzfanz let out a collective “meh” as each one comes with some positives, but as a group doesn’t really do much to address the perimeter defense issues. I think this could be the classic scenario of a group being greater than the sum of its parts. Specifically with Hassan. I get so frustrated when the Jazz are unable to punish opponents down low when they go small. I think this year, we can finally see some of that.

Good post. The guys are buying in.

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