I think that's called denial.
Hmmmm you don’t say?
- Thread starter oneye
- Start date
I think that's called denial.
I think he has improved tremendously on offense, he is one of the few best PnR scorers in the league and generally makes good decisions out of it. He has been more efficient around the rim. He has added an aspect every season. That's all true but he has regressed a ton on defense. Some of it is that he is the primary creator and had been burdened with it too much. Jazz had some line-ups that didn't work towards him in his early years but he is now playing with Conley who not only spaces the floor but handles the playmaking duties. Bogey who gives him space and steps up when needed. Clarkson is there so we don't lose offense. Royce, Ingles, Gay all spaces the floor for our spread PnR offense that allows Mitchell to feast. He should be much more active on defense because his offensive load isn't the same anymore. It's much less.
What he doesn't get, I think, is less that he needs to play defense. He acknowledges that he needs to step up, says just need to it all the time. The problem is that he doesn't think it's a process. He believes that, probably subconsciously, he can go out there and play defense. It just doesn't work like that. There needs to be repetition, cohesion. Defense is not an individual concept.
I firmly believe Quin is a great coach, there is only so much you can do if the guys aren't coachable. I repeat myself but Quin did have great defensive teams and lost too many defensive players when we changed our identity. He won't be and shouldn't be with the Jazz next year but I find it hard to blame him.
Agree about his improvement on offense, I was talking about D. He improved tremendously in college.
Disagree Quin is a good coach. He was playing checkers while Ty Lue appeared to be playing chess. ****ing Ty Lue.
Quin's teams have been good on D with Rudy. Really bad pre-Rudy starting.
Oh, I don't know much about his college years, just his last year. But guys change and some are more stubborn when they are big time. It wasn't like Mitchell was a consensus no1 pick, may be if he was we would see it earlier. Kinda like Zion.
Ty Lue narrative is weird. It just happened because he coached Lebron but he is not a bad coach.
Pre-Rudy we had Enes Kanter starting and we were young. Enes Kanter never improved on defense. I think that's natural.
Hayward improved defensively under him that he was almost at the same level with George and Butler before his injuries. Gobert also improved his defending in space. Niang improved as well. I don't think Quin is short on guys that have improved defensively. Some guys get there, some don't. We just happen to gave quite a few that doesn't look like they will get there.
Maybe firing Quin or him resigning lights a fire under them.
Rudy plays exceptionally well above 10ft. Don plays remarkably well at everything below 10ft. And yet they can't work with each others strengths. I think Rudy is overblowing the defense issue. Unless you have 3 seven footers or a team of 6-9+ wings, your team will get cooked defensively. Offenses are that good. Realistically the win margin is usually 2 to 3 baskets. That only 2 to 3 plays in total the whole game. My expectations for the current make up of the Jazz is not to be perfect on defense but to be better than the other team just two or three plays for each player on the Jazz than the competition.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
I'm a massive fan of Gobert but I don't think the fanbase, who loves him for good reason, understand that the teams' weaknesses do stem from gobert too. He is a max player, takes up a huge percentage of our cap, and is incredibly limited offensively. We've had to build a team around him. In the modern NBA, if you have a guy who can't shoot, and who doesn't have any post moves or mid-range game even, you have two have four offensive players around him. Remember, before the conley and bogey signings, this team was limited offensively. We had no chance in the playoffs every year. If Gobert is one of your max guys, you have to get creative around him. I'm not saying I don't appreciate Gobert, but this idea that the choice between him and Mitchell, if we ever had to make a choice, isn't as obvious as you think. Gobert might be the most valuable regular season player in the league, certainly on our team he is. But in the playoffs, Gobert becomes less valuable. Mitchell becomes more valuable. It's just a fact. Good teams with elite rosters can take Gobert out of the post and neutralize him. He can't take you to the finals being the best player. You need a Mitchell.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
I can't believe that Quin is taking about, "peaking too early." Like, I know it's talked about in the media, but feels like crazy talk from a head coach. I think "peaking" is mostly when your team is hitting shots and is probably mostly random/uncontrollable.
This is probably the most crazy quote I've seen from Quin.
I kinda feel like they should get a jump on a nuclear blowup of the team. I don’t believe in Quin, I think Mitchell is spoiled, and Gobert is a passive-aggressive turd. They haven’t shown they have what it takes with regard to basic emotional maturity to be greater than the sum of their parts, and a team with no tier 1 talent requires that.
I’m pretty full of **** on this wish, but I can’t help but wonder what might happen if this team ever did a proper rebuild.
I’m pretty full of **** on this wish, but I can’t help but wonder what might happen if this team ever did a proper rebuild.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
The Don and Rudy beef around covid was always bigger in my eyes than many made it out to be.
Rudy has the external rep of being a hard worker and putting the right stuff first. You can clearly see that he has that respect on this forum.
Well, Rudy showed in public how irresponsible he can be with the whole mic touching charade. Behind closed doors, Rudy did something to Don so big that nobody on the team would ever talk about it. They deferred to Rudy and Don to discuss it, but did admit something did happen and Don was pissed. Unfortunately, Don kind of got a bad rep for showing his emotions about the situation publicly. Many said he violated lockerroom code.
I don't think Don/they ever recovered from it. If you lose respect for somebody, it's hard to get it back. If respect is an issue, it probably burns Don up when Rudy goes public with stuff that should stay private. Rudy rarely gets held to the same standard as Don both in the media and on the floor. And I bet Don just doesn't respect Rudy because Rudy does and says what he wants without much flack from anybody.
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Rudy has the external rep of being a hard worker and putting the right stuff first. You can clearly see that he has that respect on this forum.
Well, Rudy showed in public how irresponsible he can be with the whole mic touching charade. Behind closed doors, Rudy did something to Don so big that nobody on the team would ever talk about it. They deferred to Rudy and Don to discuss it, but did admit something did happen and Don was pissed. Unfortunately, Don kind of got a bad rep for showing his emotions about the situation publicly. Many said he violated lockerroom code.
I don't think Don/they ever recovered from it. If you lose respect for somebody, it's hard to get it back. If respect is an issue, it probably burns Don up when Rudy goes public with stuff that should stay private. Rudy rarely gets held to the same standard as Don both in the media and on the floor. And I bet Don just doesn't respect Rudy because Rudy does and says what he wants without much flack from anybody.
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Okay, now let’s let fandom take over, I think at heart most of us like Rudy more the more we get to know them. So if we just get to not win a title with both? Most of us will choose Rudy.
Donovan got a bad rep because he’s proven to be a diva and drama queen over and over. Yeah, he’s not as popular anymore and he shouldn’t be.
This is Don and Rudy's 5th year together and they've never gotten past the second round...if we have another first or second round exit again this season, I have a feeling the **** is really going to hit the fan. This offseason could be fascinating.
Hearsky
Well-Known Member
It took Stockton and Malone eight years together to get past the second round. Just sayin.
That's true. There wasn't so much drama surrounding them though, and by all accounts they got along very well.
So ... to sum it up ... Our softass perimeter players took offense to Gobert pointing out their softassedness and demanding they do better. I kind of wish Gobert would be EVEN MORE DIRECT and less accommodating. Because it's him that gets all the blame in the playoffs when the Mitchells and Clarksons of the roster can't keep their own shadow in front of them. And furthermore, I wish the coach and FO would actually support the player who's actually trying to make this team better rather than playing victim when their lack of effort is being pointed out. I'm sick of that diva BS.
I don't see why people are so upset about this quote. He is right. The regular season means next to nothing and last year was the perfect example of it. Not sure what people want here. I don't have the expectation that he should lie and say the RS matter more than it does. It didn't matter that we were playing amazing last year, played well a couple weeks ago, and now we're now playing like **** when Rudy was out. We're the same team and these ebbs and flows are near meaningless.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
I Don't think people are upset, I'm certainly not, it's just wacky to hear this from a head coach, and in combination with the other quotes from Quin.
You would think he would be talking about consistent effort, continual improvement and refinement, about the learning process, and how we are preparing for the post season.
I'm guessing it's not what he meant, but he gives the impression that he doesn't care if his players give good effort during the regular season, and that they can just slack off until the post season.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine Coach K or Bobby Knight making the same quote.