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What should be done with Rudy Gay

Rudy has sucked... but even if he continues to struggle I wouldn't attach assets to dump him. With a healthy offseason and a year under his belt he's likely to bounce back. I know he's old but I'd roll with it before giving up the zero assets we have for more savings.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Rudy has sucked... but even if he continues to struggle I wouldn't attach assets to dump him. With a healthy offseason and a year under his belt he's likely to bounce back. I know he's old but I'd roll with it before giving up the zero assets we have for more savings.
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I've been that guy in that past who's said "it's not my money"....but something that has become abundantly clear is that this is Ryan's money and he does not want draft picks more than he wants to keep more of his money.
 
KqWIN said:
I've been that guy in that past who's said "it's not my money"....but something that has become abundantly clear is that this is Ryan's money and he does not want draft picks more than he wants to keep more of his money.
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Ohhhhhh I am well aware. I just think there isn't as much urgency to dump Gay and use assets. If he has a solid 7-10 game stretch at the end of the season and is okay in the playoffs you can likely move him this offseason without too much capital going out. Worst case move some other parts, don't spend any of your exceptions, and hope he bounces back. I just wouldn't be in a hurry to dump the guy. See what Paschall and House will take to come back (maybe) and then make your decision. I think we rushed the Favs deal because of financial pressure and I am hoping Danny can give Ryan the patience he needs to wait for a better opportunity if more salary must be dumped.

I think there is also the possibility we get knocked out in the first or second round and we move Mike, Bogey, JC or other parts and will dump salary in those deals. Might be able to find a home for NAW... I am just saying I wouldn't be looking to do a Gay plus two seconds salary dump move.
 
I like what I have seen from Paschall and Rudy has definitely struggled but I am not sure I would pull the plug on Rudy right now. I wonder if Rudy G has been healthy enough and played enough this year for us to know where he is really at. I think his experience and track record means that we give him another 6-10 games to see what he can do.
 
The question with Rudy Gay is whether his legs are just gone at this point. He no longer shows any first step to speak of, and he can barely dunk the ball as a 6'9" forward with long arms. If he can shoot mid-range jumpers over smaller defenders like Marcus Morris does, then there's some value in that, but it's just starting to look like he can't keep up with the pace of the game. It's like his feet can't move much.

If the Jazz just want a spot-up shooter with some size and length, I honestly think Hernangomez can do that much.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The question with Rudy Gay is whether his legs are just gone at this point. He no longer shows any first step to speak of, and he can barely dunk the ball as a 6'9" forward with long arms. If he can shoot mid-range jumpers over smaller defenders like Marcus Morris does, then there's some value in that, but it's just starting to look like he can't keep up with the pace of the game. It's like his feet can't move much.

If the Jazz just want a spot-up shooter with some size and length, I honestly think Hernangomez can do that much.
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Barely dunk? He nearly threw down a poster last night...
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The question with Rudy Gay is whether his legs are just gone at this point. He no longer shows any first step to speak of, and he can barely dunk the ball as a 6'9" forward with long arms. If he can shoot mid-range jumpers over smaller defenders like Marcus Morris does, then there's some value in that, but it's just starting to look like he can't keep up with the pace of the game. It's like his feet can't move much.

If the Jazz just want a spot-up shooter with some size and length, I honestly think Hernangomez can do that much.
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I mean he is coming off a heel surgery and looked a little heavy to start the season. A couple games ago he looked to be moving really well... shots weren't falling but he looked different. Didn't watch all of the game last night and was kind of in and out.

I think he takes the next 15-20 games to find himself a bit and is just fine for the playoffs. His shot will run hot and cold but he's just fine.
 
We will be able to cut salary next year when teams like Detroit etc. realize they didn't get guys they want and talk themselves into taking on a JC deal... I wouldn't try to cut salary during the draft or before free agency. The time to do it is when teams have missed on their primary targets and pickings are more slim. I think all teams over-value cap flexibility pre-draft and pre-FA.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ohhhhhh I am well aware. I just think there isn't as much urgency to dump Gay and use assets. If he has a solid 7-10 game stretch at the end of the season and is okay in the playoffs you can likely move him this offseason without too much capital going out. Worst case move some other parts, don't spend any of your exceptions, and hope he bounces back. I just wouldn't be in a hurry to dump the guy. See what Paschall and House will take to come back (maybe) and then make your decision. I think we rushed the Favs deal because of financial pressure and I am hoping Danny can give Ryan the patience he needs to wait for a better opportunity if more salary must be dumped.

I think there is also the possibility we get knocked out in the first or second round and we move Mike, Bogey, JC or other parts and will dump salary in those deals. Might be able to find a home for NAW... I am just saying I wouldn't be looking to do a Gay plus two seconds salary dump move.
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Gay can play better than he is now and it wouldn't surprise me, but it also doesn't surprise me if this is who he is. If you asked any Spurs fan about him last year, they would have already told you his body is creaky. What else can you expect, he's 35 and played 33k minutes. If I had to bet on who's more likely to raise their level (or continue a high level of play) I'm definitely betting on House/Paschall right now. And even if Gay has a a good 5-10 game stretch, he's certainly not turning that into another solid two years when his contract is guaranteed. To me this isn't really a slump. He's probably not this bad, but what really happened is that he had a super hot start and that was very unrealistic. I don't think we dump him for picks this summer (mostly because we don't have picks), but it will probably end up costing us House and Paschall unless they are happy to come back for the minimum. Paschall isn't playing, so maybe he'll be back but he'll probably want more opportunity if he's going to sign for the min. House will probably get a Niang style deal much like his last with HOU.

This summer I'd rather dump Gay than NAW who has less guaranteed money, less years, and is not 36. But without picks, I think our plan of action will be to try to trade Bogey/Clarkson for picks and/or Conley for a younger and cheaper player like Smart. Unless we reach the conference finals, I expect priority number one to be to duck the tax and priority two to also be ducking the tax.
 
KqWIN said:
Gay can play better than he is now and it wouldn't surprise me, but it also doesn't surprise me if this is who he is. If you asked any Spurs fan about him last year, they would have already told you his body is creaky. What else can you expect, he's 35 and played 33k minutes. If I had to bet on who's more likely to raise their level (or continue a high level of play) I'm definitely betting on House/Paschall right now. And even if Gay has a a good 5-10 game stretch, he's certainly not turning that into another solid two years when his contract is guaranteed. To me this isn't really a slump. He's probably not this bad, but what really happened is that he had a super hot start and that was very unrealistic. I don't think we dump him for picks this summer (mostly because we don't have picks), but it will probably end up costing us House and Paschall unless they are happy to come back for the minimum. Paschall isn't playing, so maybe he'll be back but he'll probably want more opportunity if he's going to sign for the min. House will probably get a Niang style deal much like his last with HOU.

This summer I'd rather dump Gay than NAW who has less guaranteed money, less years, and is not 36. But without picks, I think our plan of action will be to try to trade Bogey/Clarkson for picks and/or Conley for a younger and cheaper player like Smart. Unless we reach the conference finals, I expect priority number one to be to duck the tax and priority two to also be ducking the tax.
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He's gonna be creaky... but sometimes those vets can rally and get their bodies right for a good stint. I think his overall percentages come up a bit (maybe not a ton) by end of the season. Right now he's definitely slumping... just like to start the year he was definitely on an unsustainable hot streak.

He's still rebounding and helping on defense. He's still useful... and that is my main point. I'm not going to use draft capital (we will have a little when the league year turns over) to dump a guy that still has some utility and could have a bounce back... may not be a huge bounce back but a slight bounce back. The most savings you can net with him is like 4M because you dump his 6M and take in a minimum player.

The cost very well may be one of House or Paschall. I'm not sure House has a huge market based on how long he got 10 days but maybe his value turns all the way around. Paschall is restricted and I expect his market to be pretty tepid. If you move Bogey you may have a spot for Paschall to play and look fairly appealing.

I do agree on your priority list though lol. Gay may be part of that budget cut if we get an okay deal or if he is lumped in with another player. I just think there are going to be more palatable ways to get there and I would not be panicked to do something about him. He's a useful 12-15 minute a night player... right now he's playing below his averages but I expect that to change and for him to sprinkle in some hot shooting games here and there.

If I was to guess the preferred order of budget cuts if we fail to reach the conference finals... I'd say:

1- JC for little or no returning salary. Light draft capital goes one way or another based on how well he plays to close the season/playoffs.
2- I think Mike might be next. He looks to be slowing and has multi years left and might have some solid trade value.
3- Bogey. If Bogey is healthy we can easily move him for a player with a smaller deal... since he is expiring we could get a guy on a multi year deal even. Might be able to stuff NAW in there too.
4- Gay - Multi year deal.... just depends on the cost to dump him.
5- NAW - Maybe someone still believes... and takes him for free.
6- Royce - IF you can get something good for him and low salary while retaining House then you can sorta run it back with a budget version of Royce.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's gonna be creaky... but sometimes those vets can rally and get their bodies right for a good stint. I think his overall percentages come up a bit (maybe not a ton) by end of the season. Right now he's definitely slumping... just like to start the year he was definitely on an unsustainable hot streak.

He's still rebounding and helping on defense. He's still useful... and that is my main point. I'm not going to use draft capital (we will have a little when the league year turns over) to dump a guy that still has some utility and could have a bounce back... may not be a huge bounce back but a slight bounce back. The most savings you can net with him is like 4M because you dump his 6M and take in a minimum player.

The cost very well may be one of House or Paschall. I'm not sure House has a huge market based on how long he got 10 days but maybe his value turns all the way around. Paschall is restricted and I expect his market to be pretty tepid. If you move Bogey you may have a spot for Paschall to play and look fairly appealing.

I do agree on your priority list though lol. Gay may be part of that budget cut if we get an okay deal or if he is lumped in with another player. I just think there are going to be more palatable ways to get there and I would not be panicked to do something about him. He's a useful 12-15 minute a night player... right now he's playing below his averages but I expect that to change and for him to sprinkle in some hot shooting games here and there.

If I was to guess the preferred order of budget cuts if we fail to reach the conference finals... I'd say:

1- JC for little or no returning salary. Light draft capital goes one way or another based on how well he plays to close the season/playoffs.
2- I think Mike might be next. He looks to be slowing and has multi years left and might have some solid trade value.
3- Bogey. If Bogey is healthy we can easily move him for a player with a smaller deal... since he is expiring we could get a guy on a multi year deal even. Might be able to stuff NAW in there too.
4- Gay - Multi year deal.... just depends on the cost to dump him.
5- NAW - Maybe someone still believes... and takes him for free.
6- Royce - IF you can get something good for him and low salary while retaining House then you can sorta run it back with a budget version of Royce.
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Good ideas, but Royce's contract is so reasonable he's already a budget version of himself. The contract isn't the problem with Royce, it's his roll on the team. We are asking him to do too much.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's gonna be creaky... but sometimes those vets can rally and get their bodies right for a good stint. I think his overall percentages come up a bit (maybe not a ton) by end of the season. Right now he's definitely slumping... just like to start the year he was definitely on an unsustainable hot streak.

He's still rebounding and helping on defense. He's still useful... and that is my main point. I'm not going to use draft capital (we will have a little when the league year turns over) to dump a guy that still has some utility and could have a bounce back... may not be a huge bounce back but a slight bounce back. The most savings you can net with him is like 4M because you dump his 6M and take in a minimum player.

The cost very well may be one of House or Paschall. I'm not sure House has a huge market based on how long he got 10 days but maybe his value turns all the way around. Paschall is restricted and I expect his market to be pretty tepid. If you move Bogey you may have a spot for Paschall to play and look fairly appealing.

I do agree on your priority list though lol. Gay may be part of that budget cut if we get an okay deal or if he is lumped in with another player. I just think there are going to be more palatable ways to get there and I would not be panicked to do something about him. He's a useful 12-15 minute a night player... right now he's playing below his averages but I expect that to change and for him to sprinkle in some hot shooting games here and there.

If I was to guess the preferred order of budget cuts if we fail to reach the conference finals... I'd say:

1- JC for little or no returning salary. Light draft capital goes one way or another based on how well he plays to close the season/playoffs.
2- I think Mike might be next. He looks to be slowing and has multi years left and might have some solid trade value.
3- Bogey. If Bogey is healthy we can easily move him for a player with a smaller deal... since he is expiring we could get a guy on a multi year deal even. Might be able to stuff NAW in there too.
4- Gay - Multi year deal.... just depends on the cost to dump him.
5- NAW - Maybe someone still believes... and takes him for free.
6- Royce - IF you can get something good for him and low salary while retaining House then you can sorta run it back with a budget version of Royce.
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I don’t think he’s helping much on defense or even rebounding compared to Paschall. For every moment where I think, “man it was nice to have another guy with size”, there are ten moments where I see Gay being an absolute traffic cone. Maybe there will be a time where we need a second big more than a big wing defender like Paschall….but I’m going to reject this idea that Gay is/was a good defense. He does some nice thing, but overall he’s bad and it’s what we should have expected given his age. His individual rebounding numbers are better then Paschall, but the team doesn’t rebound better with Gay on the court. Maybe that comes into play if you want Gay at the 5, but in terms of Paschall vs Gay at the 4….it’s a very clear decision for me. Paschall has more upside and has played better this year. It’s going to pain me when he signs a 3/$10 super team friendly deal this summer and it’s not with us.

I didn’t worry about Joe’s age even when he was playing like trash this year because he was coming off the best season of his career…but Rudy Gay was creaky to begin with. We looked at that signing through the most optimistic lender possible…which is fine, but we’ve got to be realistic about the situation. A 5-6 game hot start is not an equivalent of 20+ game stretch of really bad basketball. This isn’t the case of ups and downs during a long season…it certainly looks like Father Time to me.

And again, this is just this year. I don’t have hope for Rudy Gay to turn it up by the end of the year…but it’s not impossible. Rudy Gay turning in two future seasons where he’s productive? Now that seems impossible to me. Even if he makes that end of season jump, this is very likely a bad contract that will burn us one way or another. Unfortunately we’re in agreement that it won’t be Ryan’s wallet that will feel the burn. We’ll feel it in losing future assets or by making the team worse by trading off quality players or having to let them walk.

I don’t really blame the FO for the Favors or Gay signings. In both situations it felt like they just got the best player available and we were fortunate to get them… but both of them were pretty huge whiffs. The process wasn’t as bad as the Doke pick, for example, but a late first round draft pick is much harder to hit on than two MLE signings. Favors cost us dearly already, Gay will also cost us whether he’s the one to be moved or not.
 
KqWIN said:
I don’t think he’s helping much on defense or even rebounding compared to Paschall. For every moment where I think, “man it was nice to have another guy with size”, there are ten moments where I see Gay being an absolute traffic cone. Maybe there will be a time where we need a second big more than a big wing defender like Paschall….but I’m going to reject this idea that Gay is/was a good defense. He does some nice thing, but overall he’s bad and it’s what we should have expected given his age. His individual rebounding numbers are better then Paschall, but the team doesn’t rebound better with Gay on the court. Maybe that comes into play if you want Gay at the 5, but in terms of Paschall vs Gay at the 4….it’s a very clear decision for me. Paschall has more upside and has played better this year. It’s going to pain me when he signs a 3/$10 super team friendly deal this summer and it’s not with us.

I didn’t worry about Joe’s age even when he was playing like trash this year because he was coming off the best season of his career…but Rudy Gay was creaky to begin with. We looked at that signing through the most optimistic lender possible…which is fine, but we’ve got to be realistic about the situation. A 5-6 game hot start is not an equivalent of 20+ game stretch of really bad basketball. This isn’t the case of ups and downs during a long season…it certainly looks like Father Time to me.

And again, this is just this year. I don’t have hope for Rudy Gay to turn it up by the end of the year…but it’s not impossible. Rudy Gay turning in two future seasons where he’s productive? Now that seems impossible to me. Even if he makes that end of season jump, this is very likely a bad contract that will burn us one way or another. Unfortunately we’re in agreement that it won’t be Ryan’s wallet that will feel the burn. We’ll feel it in losing future assets or by making the team worse by trading off quality players or having to let them walk.

I don’t really blame the FO for the Favors or Gay signings. In both situations it felt like they just got the best player available and we were fortunate to get them… but both of them were pretty huge whiffs. The process wasn’t as bad as the Doke pick, for example, but a late first round draft pick is much harder to hit on than two MLE signings. Favors cost us dearly already, Gay will also cost us whether he’s the one to be moved or not.
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I mean I expect him to get to his level of production from last year or close to it. Part of the reason he was creaky last year was the heel/ankle... he didn't opt for the surgery for ***** and giggles... it was an issue that had bothered him for a while. When we signed he I didn't know he had a surgery which would have changed my thinking a bit, but I think there are reasons to believe he can be useful. I don't think he's going to kill us out there and he's a much better rebounder than Eric. It was more pronounced when Rudy or Hassan were out and overall I think Paschall is the better option right now... but I wouldn't write Rudy off just yet. You can flip the rotation later if he continues to suck.

I don't think Rudy will go on his 5-6 game tear but I also don't think he will shoot 20% from three the rest of the season. I don't expect him to be amazing the next couple years but would he be as good as some vet we get for the minimum? I think he can exceed that floor and he doesn't make a huge amount more than the minimum.

I don't think we lose Paschall... I don't think his market will be huge... he's also restricted so you just match a 3/10M offer and figure it out later. He is also Donovan's homie so is going to get some bonus points there. I don't think the Gay signing is that horrible even now. I think when we cut salary we will get more bang for our buck moving Bogey, JC, Mike... using second round picks to offload Gay would be like having a yard sale to get some extra cash... I think we are going to sell the second car and make due with one for a while.

From everything I have heard from national and local media I think if we fail to reach the conference finals it is going to be MAJOR changes and Gay's salary won't matter nearly as much. I'm not sure if that is major as in - Mike or Bogey get moved or major as in Rudy Gobert gets moved. It sounds ominous though. If we make the conference finals and they can't offload JC I think then you look to move Gay with draft assets to make the budget work.
 
If we could figure out how to combine Juancho and Eric into one player, then I think we've got ourselves a long-term solution.
 
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