What should be done with Rudy Gay

[LogGrad98]

i mean when you continue to sign these old dudes that have seemingly lost their legs to long term deals, what else do you really expect?

It's not like there weren't any lessons to learn from the Ed/Favs/Conley signings.

Missed one. Our 30 million dollar man that went down for 1/3 of the season and playoffs 2 seasons in a row from an old broken down body.

 

[Release the Kraken]

If Snyder had any balls, he’d bench Gay or put him on injured reserve whatever, so that Paschall a guy that can help us, gets some run before the playoffs. That’s what a good coach would do IMO.

 

[Keefe]

Just get him and shape and healthy. Is Bogey fully healthy?

That’s what matters most. Don’t care if we slip to the 6 seed. Get everyone healthy.

 

[KqWIN]

I mean I expect him to get to his level of production from last year or close to it. Part of the reason he was creaky last year was the heel/ankle... he didn't opt for the surgery for ***** and giggles... it was an issue that had bothered him for a while. When we signed he I didn't know he had a surgery which would have changed my thinking a bit, but I think there are reasons to believe he can be useful. I don't think he's going to kill us out there and he's a much better rebounder than Eric. It was more pronounced when Rudy or Hassan were out and overall I think Paschall is the better option right now... but I wouldn't write Rudy off just yet. You can flip the rotation later if he continues to suck.

I don't think Rudy will go on his 5-6 game tear but I also don't think he will shoot 20% from three the rest of the season. I don't expect him to be amazing the next couple years but would he be as good as some vet we get for the minimum? I think he can exceed that floor and he doesn't make a huge amount more than the minimum.

I don't think we lose Paschall... I don't think his market will be huge... he's also restricted so you just match a 3/10M offer and figure it out later. He is also Donovan's homie so is going to get some bonus points there. I don't think the Gay signing is that horrible even now. I think when we cut salary we will get more bang for our buck moving Bogey, JC, Mike... using second round picks to offload Gay would be like having a yard sale to get some extra cash... I think we are going to sell the second car and make due with one for a while.

From everything I have heard from national and local media I think if we fail to reach the conference finals it is going to be MAJOR changes and Gay's salary won't matter nearly as much. I'm not sure if that is major as in - Mike or Bogey get moved or major as in Rudy Gobert gets moved. It sounds ominous though. If we make the conference finals and they can't offload JC I think then you look to move Gay with draft assets to make the budget work.

We lose Paschall not because 3/10 is a bad deal or that we don't have match rights. We lose Paschall because we're paying Rudy Gay and Ryan Smith's wallet is the number one priority of this team. I was called a crazy person for saying that Niang at barely above the minimum was a missed opportunity for us, but turns out that a guy who you are 100% sure can play well in your rotation is pretty good when your owner sends every piece of draft capital away to save money. I don't think Gay will be dumped this season, but that's only because we already used all the picks to dump salary. Instead, I expect us to dump salary other ways. But make no mistake... if we had the draft capital to dump Rudy Gay, we would dump him this summer. We just don't have the picks to dump him so money has to come off another way. I hope it's in a productive manner by trading some of the surplus (JC/Bogey) for any draft capital we can get.

I was probably lower on the Gay move than anyone, but I can't really fault them for making the deal. It just turned out really bad and we will pay for it dearly one way or another. I think we're in agreement that it won't be in Ryan's wallet. He could turn it around at some point, hopefully when it matters most, but Paschall is much more likely to do that at this point IMO. I agree that Paschall is the better option and I'm fairly confident in it at this point. Gay vs Whiteside is the bigger discussion for me personally. I think Pachall has played well enough that he's a "must play" type of guy.

Really, I think it's a shame what's happening to Paschall. I was also somewhat skeptical of the Paschall move, but now I'm wishing we had him on a long term deal and he could be a good player for us for many years to come. We found a good one. Now we're almost certainly going to lose him.

 

[homeytennis]

There are guys in the GLeague that could fill in as well as both Rudy and Paschal right now and as bad as the Stars have been, a couple on their roster. But the Jazz are stuck with Rudy for two more seasons.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

There were moments last night where Gay was useful by just being a tall human being. At one point Gobert had been pulled out of position and OKC got the rebound. Gay was able to defend the putback attempt and grab the rebound just by sticking his hands up in the air.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We lose Paschall not because 3/10 is a bad deal or that we don't have match rights. We lose Paschall because we're paying Rudy Gay and Ryan Smith's wallet is the number one priority of this team. I was called a crazy person for saying that Niang at barely above the minimum was a missed opportunity for us, but turns out that a guy who you are 100% sure can play well in your rotation is pretty good when your owner sends every piece of draft capital away to save money. I don't think Gay will be dumped this season, but that's only because we already used all the picks to dump salary. Instead, I expect us to dump salary other ways. But make no mistake... if we had the draft capital to dump Rudy Gay, we would dump him this summer. We just don't have the picks to dump him so money has to come off another way. I hope it's in a productive manner by trading some of the surplus (JC/Bogey) for any draft capital we can get.

I was probably lower on the Gay move than anyone, but I can't really fault them for making the deal. It just turned out really bad and we will pay for it dearly one way or another. I think we're in agreement that it won't be in Ryan's wallet. He could turn it around at some point, hopefully when it matters most, but Paschall is much more likely to do that at this point IMO. I agree that Paschall is the better option and I'm fairly confident in it at this point. Gay vs Whiteside is the bigger discussion for me personally. I think Pachall has played well enough that he's a "must play" type of guy.

Really, I think it's a shame what's happening to Paschall. I was also somewhat skeptical of the Paschall move, but now I'm wishing we had him on a long term deal and he could be a good player for us for many years to come. We found a good one. Now we're almost certainly going to lose him.

I just don't think Gay will cost us Paschall. If he gets a 3/10M offer we likely match it. Cut salary another way. IDK.

I do agree it sucks when guys who are playing better but are on the bench because the other guy has a better profile and bigger contract. I think its the right move for now though because I don't think Gay is a lost cause yet.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One little nugget I picked up on a random Andy Larsen pod or interview... it seems we didn't really understand the full scope of the surgery or how serious it was. It seems as though it may have been overlooked or lost a bit in the transition of medical teams. I would have thought they had a better understanding of the recovery period.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We lose Paschall not because 3/10 is a bad deal or that we don't have match rights. We lose Paschall because we're paying Rudy Gay and Ryan Smith's wallet is the number one priority of this team. I was called a crazy person for saying that Niang at barely above the minimum was a missed opportunity for us, but turns out that a guy who you are 100% sure can play well in your rotation is pretty good when your owner sends every piece of draft capital away to save money. I don't think Gay will be dumped this season, but that's only because we already used all the picks to dump salary. Instead, I expect us to dump salary other ways. But make no mistake... if we had the draft capital to dump Rudy Gay, we would dump him this summer. We just don't have the picks to dump him so money has to come off another way. I hope it's in a productive manner by trading some of the surplus (JC/Bogey) for any draft capital we can get.

I was probably lower on the Gay move than anyone, but I can't really fault them for making the deal. It just turned out really bad and we will pay for it dearly one way or another. I think we're in agreement that it won't be in Ryan's wallet. He could turn it around at some point, hopefully when it matters most, but Paschall is much more likely to do that at this point IMO. I agree that Paschall is the better option and I'm fairly confident in it at this point. Gay vs Whiteside is the bigger discussion for me personally. I think Pachall has played well enough that he's a "must play" type of guy.

Really, I think it's a shame what's happening to Paschall. I was also somewhat skeptical of the Paschall move, but now I'm wishing we had him on a long term deal and he could be a good player for us for many years to come. We found a good one. Now we're almost certainly going to lose him.

I just don't think Gay will cost us Paschall. If he gets a 3/10M offer we likely match it. Cut salary another way. IDK.

I do agree it sucks when guys who are playing better but are on the bench because the other guy has a better profile and bigger contract. I think its the right move for now though because I don't think Gay is a lost cause yet.

But also to counterpoint my budget thought... we do seem to make moves to cut budget in minor things rather than making a bigger more meaningful budget impact. Deciding that Paschall at 3M is worse than a vet minimum guy who sucks at like 1.8M would be par for the course. I mean we did decide that a second round salary was preferable to a first round salary and also trade a decent second to offload 300K of Tucker salary. So logic says you make a smart budget move and keep Eric... we could do the opposite... so I think its a reasonable concern. I hope Danny is smarter and can help Ryan see the whole picture.

 

[infection]

I hope Danny is smarter and can help Ryan see the whole picture.

Knowing that we swapped out $3M in salary this year for $5M in salary next has me thinking that we shouldn’t hold our breath.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

One little nugget I picked up on a random Andy Larsen pod or interview... it seems we didn't really understand the full scope of the surgery or how serious it was. It seems as though it may have been overlooked or lost a bit in the transition of medical teams. I would have thought they had a better understanding of the recovery period.

Huh, I wonder if firing Mike Elliot had any influence on that....

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Huh, I wonder if firing Mike Elliot had any influence on that....

The implication from Andy was kind of like we were in between med staffs... maybe. But sure... I'll give you a win.

 

[homeytennis]

I would think that the Jazz could call any Ortho and PT in the Salt Lake phone directory and get a good answer to the question of recovery and rehab time involved. I think Mike Conley snookered the owner because he wanted his buddy on the team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would think that the Jazz could call any Ortho and PT in the Salt Lake phone directory and get a good answer to the question of recovery and rehab time involved. I think Mike Conley snookered the owner because he wanted his buddy on the team.

You're right. We should sign Carson Edwards and waive Conley for this transgression!

 

[KqWIN]

But also to counterpoint my budget thought... we do seem to make moves to cut budget in minor things rather than making a bigger more meaningful budget impact. Deciding that Paschall at 3M is worse than a vet minimum guy who sucks at like 1.8M would be par for the course. I mean we did decide that a second round salary was preferable to a first round salary and also trade a decent second to offload 300K of Tucker salary. So logic says you make a smart budget move and keep Eric... we could do the opposite... so I think its a reasonable concern. I hope Danny is smarter and can help Ryan see the whole picture.

Yeah...we've made several moves to move off salary that lead me to believe that we won't be OK with having our 11th guy be paid anything more than the minimum. If House, Paschall, or Forrest get offered above the minimum I think they are gone. In Paschall's situation, I would want to leave anyways for more opportunity. I don't think Gay is that bad, but it's pretty clear that he's not going to reach some of the upper end of some of our expectations/hopes. The idea of him becoming a closing option is completely out of the picture, for example. He's really just in the Niang role, and while it will be hard for him to perform worse than Niang did last year, I had way more confidence in Niang going into the playoffs last year than I do with Gay right now. But it's not that bad.

The missed opportunity on Paschall bothers me more than Gay playing. I think Paschall is someone we should lock down for multiple years. He's entering his best years of basketball and is really talented. He's shown me enough this year that he can scale down to smaller usage role, but he still has the ability to get buckets if we needed to call upon him. When you have a very expensive team, it's essential that you have cheap good players locked down for multiple years.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah...we've made several moves to move off salary that lead me to believe that we won't be OK with having our 11th guy be paid anything more than the minimum. If House, Paschall, or Forrest get offered above the minimum I think they are gone. In Paschall's situation, I would want to leave anyways for more opportunity. I don't think Gay is that bad, but it's pretty clear that he's not going to reach some of the upper end of some of our expectations/hopes. The idea of him becoming a closing option is completely out of the picture, for example. He's really just in the Niang role, and while it will be hard for him to perform worse than Niang did last year, I had way more confidence in Niang going into the playoffs last year than I do with Gay right now. But it's not that bad.

The missed opportunity on Paschall bothers me more than Gay playing. I think Paschall is someone we should lock down for multiple years. He's entering his best years of basketball and is really talented. He's shown me enough this year that he can scale down to smaller usage role, but he still has the ability to get buckets if we needed to call upon him. When you have a very expensive team, it's essential that you have cheap good players locked down for multiple years.

Paschal is mediocre at best.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah...we've made several moves to move off salary that lead me to believe that we won't be OK with having our 11th guy be paid anything more than the minimum. If House, Paschall, or Forrest get offered above the minimum I think they are gone. In Paschall's situation, I would want to leave anyways for more opportunity. I don't think Gay is that bad, but it's pretty clear that he's not going to reach some of the upper end of some of our expectations/hopes. The idea of him becoming a closing option is completely out of the picture, for example. He's really just in the Niang role, and while it will be hard for him to perform worse than Niang did last year, I had way more confidence in Niang going into the playoffs last year than I do with Gay right now. But it's not that bad.

The missed opportunity on Paschall bothers me more than Gay playing. I think Paschall is someone we should lock down for multiple years. He's entering his best years of basketball and is really talented. He's shown me enough this year that he can scale down to smaller usage role, but he still has the ability to get buckets if we needed to call upon him. When you have a very expensive team, it's essential that you have cheap good players locked down for multiple years.

I think there is a better than 50% chance we keep Paschall... the restricted status being the thing that provides me the most confidence. Sadly not playing him likely costs him some money right now but maybe his shooting is a little fluky and he'd end up regressing if given more opportunity.

I just think if the goal is to move under the tax you move JC, Mike, Bogey anyway... so Paschall making 3-4M isn't a big deal.

 

[homeytennis]

You're right. We should sign Carson Edwards and waive Conley for this transgression!

The GLeague dude would at least be productive.

 

[KqWIN]

I think there is a better than 50% chance we keep Paschall... the restricted status being the thing that provides me the most confidence. Sadly not playing him likely costs him some money right now but maybe his shooting is a little fluky and he'd end up regressing if given more opportunity.

I just think if the goal is to move under the tax you move JC, Mike, Bogey anyway... so Paschall making 3-4M isn't a big deal.

The restricted status gives me very little added confidence because the thing that will keep us from signing Paschall is money. If he gets more than the minimum, I don't think we match. Same goes for House and Forrest. House and Forrest would probably love to come back. Paschall has to come back if we match...but if those guys get more than minimum, they are gone because a cheaper option can be had.

 

[KqWIN]

Paschal is mediocre at best.

Mediocre ain't bad if you're paying pennies.