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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Rubio wasn’t the same defender when he got here. It’s also not a question of defensive ability it’s a question of effort, and he gives none, and hasn’t for a while
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He was still defensively versatile, I didn't say Rubio was good. I think you are asking too much of Mitchell defensively without really making it easier for him. Get a PG like Fultz who can guard 1s and 2s. Get a big wing who's defensive versatile, no one wants to trade them so you gotta draft it. I actually think Utah is fine at the 4 and 5. It's the 1 and 3 where I see all of the issues plus team chemistry is problematic.
 
NBASupes said:
He was still defensively versatile, I didn't say Rubio was good. I think you are asking too much of Mitchell defensively without really making it easier for him. Get a PG like Fultz who can guard 1s and 2s. Get a big wing who's defensive versatile, no one wants to trade them so you gotta draft it. I actually think Utah is fine at the 4 and 5. It's the 1 and 3 where I see all of the issues plus team chemistry is problematic.
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How has Rudy averaged more points on significantly better efficiency the last two postseasons than Collins? Is Collins also extremely limited offensively???
 
YoungJefe said:
@NBASupes

Rudy Gobert is limited offensively.

Last season....
Rudy Gobert: 15.6 ppg on 71% FG
John Collins: 16.2 ppg on 52% FG

In the playoffs the last two seasons...
Rudy Gobert: 14.7 ppg on 74% FG | 12.0 ppg on 64% FG
John Collins: 13.9 ppg on 55% FG | 9.4 ppg on 48% FG

Interesting...
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Dude, this is an extremely bad post and a terrible way of looking of things.

52/36/79 who had 55.6/40/83 the season before is less of an offensive player than 71/0/69. Come on son, you better than this. John scores on all three levels and is one of the few bigs who can shoots 3s at a very high clip and you are comparing that to a rim runner. I miss that poster of the year guy. That guy was a hell of a poster and an elite representation of Jazz fans. Had me overrating you guys like Jazz fans are extremely smart and some of the best I've seen but I just didn't run into guys like you yet. David Locke and that poster of the year fooled me.
 
NBASupes said:
Dude, this is an extremely bad post and a terrible way of looking of things.

52/36/79 who had 55.6/40/83 the season before is less of an offensive player than 71/0/69. Come on son, you better than this. John scores on all three levels and is one of the few bigs who can shoots 3s at a very high clip and you are comparing that to a rim runner. I miss that poster of the year guy. That guy was a hell of a poster and an elite representation of Jazz fans. Had me overrating you guys like Jazz fans are extremely smart and some of the best I've seen but I just didn't run into guys like you yet. David Locke and that poster of the year fooled me.
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So averaging less points on worse efficiency means you're not limited offensively when someone who averages more points on better efficiency is?
 
YoungJefe said:
So averaging less points on worse efficiency means you're not limited offensively when someone who averages more points on better efficiency is?
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mjtf.png
 
NBASupes said:
He was still defensively versatile, I didn't say Rubio was good. I think you are asking too much of Mitchell defensively without really making it easier for him. Get a PG like Fultz who can guard 1s and 2s. Get a big wing who's defensive versatile, no one wants to trade them so you gotta draft it. I actually think Utah is fine at the 4 and 5. It's the 1 and 3 where I see all of the issues plus team chemistry is problematic.
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I don’t expect him to be good or ask too much. All I expect is for him to show effort and at least offer some fight and resistance.
 
I’d argue Rudy affects winning on the offensive end more than Collins. Rudy leads the entire league in screen assists. He’s super efficient when he does get the ball. Just because he doesn’t have post moves doesn’t mean he doesn’t affect the game offensively in other ways.

We are actually one of the worst passing teams in the league as well.
 
YoungJefe said:
We slowed the Mavericks offense down though and our offense led by Don shooting like 30% is the reason we lost, lol.
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It wasn't just DM's poor shooting. THe only consistent shooter was JC. Bogey had a couple bad games, Conely was horrible for the most part and DM was not efficient. The other thing that happens in the playoffs is the other Jazz players completely forgot about Rudy on offense. While he has limitations, he wasn't getting the ball passed to him at all. Dallas could pack it in a little because our shooters couldn't make 3 pts.
 
NBASupes said:
Dallas scored anytime they needed a basket, saying you held them to 104 while you scored only in the 90s is nothing to brag about. It shows that even if Gobert has a positive impact in his struggles, his lack of offense for someone making 37 million is highly noted. Marcus Smart did an excellent job when matched up on Curry compared to the others who are similar to Rudy but Marcus is making 16 million and 19 million per compared to Rudy's 37 million and 44 million per.

I didn't compare them but if I did, Gobert to me, a top 15 player. Most NBA guys agree. https://theathletic.com/2762726/202...tier-2-superstars-just-short-of-the-very-top/
Capela is a top 60 player. Most NBA guys see him as a top 60 guy. https://theathletic.com/2753332/202...heck-in-at-tier-4-alongside-40-other-players/

Trae had a 46/38/90 with a per of 25.4 and 60 ts is not efficient? Man, you starting to disappoint me with a lack of Basketball Intellect. This isn't a good look for Jazz fans with your misrepresentation of them. Leave it to the quality posters to talk about hoops with me. You might not be on that level yet.

I see Capela as about 90% of the player Rudy is but he's not worth 50% less in contract than Rudy and he's making 18 million. Rudy is making 38 million next year. Yeah, Rudy for what he is and that contact might be a mismatch. I see it like John Collins. Impact-wise, JC is worth 25 million but reality-wise, he probably should get a max of 20 mil per. Rudy should probably be getting like 25 million at this age. 30 million is a value overpay and what he's getting is a massive overpay value-wise.
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I know his contract is an issue but its not Rudy's or the Jazz fault. It is how the system is set up so most players are overpaid. His financial figure makes a trade harder but does not diminish his accomplishments. Rudy gets way too much blame when the Jazz lose and not enough when they win. His stats speak for themselves. The narrative that he was pulled off the floor during the playoffs is a bit overblown by the media and then repeated by internet "experts" as some simply analysis of why the Jazz lost. The reason why Utah lost mainly due to poor three point shooting and their inability to contain Brunson and Luka from penetrating into the key. The Jazz crumbled under the pressure all season so it wasn't a surprise when it happened in the playoffs. Just a few plays here and there and Utah would have won the series. It is not like they were not competitive. Jazz main weakness is size in the backcourt/wings and having another guy who can create on his own. Rudy cannot guard all five guys. The only reason I would trade him is because of his contract and the fact that Jazz front office cannot seem to find size and athleticism at the backcourt and wing positions.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I’d argue Rudy affects winning on the offensive end more than Collins. Rudy leads the entire league in screen assists. He’s super efficient when he does get the ball. Just because he doesn’t have post moves doesn’t mean he doesn’t affect the game offensively in other ways.

We are actually one of the worst passing teams in the league as well.
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John is the best PnR big in the NBA and he done it without Trae as well previously. He is the best movement big in the NBA. He's also one of the most offensively versatile players. I disagree, while I think both have effects on winning on the offensive end, I wouldn't say Gobert is impacts winning more. His offensive metrics are either elite or mid at best. Whereas John is consistently really good offensively metrics-wise.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ search John Collins and Rudy Gobert and compare the last 5 seasons.

Rudy clearly has a tremendous impact offensively with his screens, as a roll man, and of course as an elite finisher for anyone who's played this game. He's someone I do respect offensively and one of the reasons you can play that fool's gold offense like Atlanta does.

You guys have a poor passing team because you guys are a guard orirented passing team. Those are never elite assists teams but tend to be extremely well-shooting teams. Gobert only gets 33.7 touches in comparison to Capela who gets 38 touches per and John gets 54 touches per which is down from last year where they Capela got 47 and JC got 52. Your squad has O'Neale getting 58 touches per, Mitchell getting 70 touches a game, and Conley getting 65 touches per. Add Clarkson's 40 and Bogey's 40 since he's used as a big wing on offense.

I do wonder how a new coach is planning on switching up Utah's style of play.
 
YoungJefe said:
So averaging less points on worse efficiency means you're not limited offensively when someone who averages more points on better efficiency is?
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Come on. All Rudy does is dunk so of course his efficiency is going to be through the roof. Only a stupid person would argue though that he is a better offensive player than Collins. It isn't even close. As was mentioned Collins can score from all 3 levels while Rudy from only 1.
 
Rudy vs Capela comparison...

Rudy:
sip said:
Come on. All Rudy does is dunk so of course his efficiency is going to be through the roof. Only a stupid person would argue though that he is a better offensive player than Collins. It isn't even close. As was mentioned Collins can score from all 3 levels while Rudy from only 1.
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Giannis dunks all the time too, John Collins is better because he takes more difficult shots and scores less points at lower efficiency? lol

Collins scoring numbers are on the decline and so is his efficiency. There's a reason you guys have been begging someone to trade for him, he's not very good.
 
NBASupes said:
John is the best PnR big in the NBA and he done it without Trae as well previously. He is the best movement big in the NBA. He's also one of the most offensively versatile players. I disagree, while I think both have effects on winning on the offensive end, I wouldn't say Gobert is impacts winning more. His offensive metrics are either elite or mid at best. Whereas John is consistently really good offensively metrics-wise.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ search John Collins and Rudy Gobert and compare the last 5 seasons.

Rudy clearly has a tremendous impact offensively with his screens, as a roll man, and of course as an elite finisher for anyone who's played this game. He's someone I do respect offensively and one of the reasons you can play that fool's gold offense like Atlanta does.

You guys have a poor passing team because you guys are a guard orirented passing team. Those are never elite assists teams but tend to be extremely well-shooting teams. Gobert only gets 33.7 touches in comparison to Capela who gets 38 touches per and John gets 54 touches per which is down from last year where they Capela got 47 and JC got 52. Your squad has O'Neale getting 58 touches per, Mitchell getting 70 touches a game, and Conley getting 65 touches per. Add Clarkson's 40 and Bogey's 40 since he's used as a big wing on offense.

I do wonder how a new coach is planning on switching up Utah's style of play.
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Why do you guys care so much about our team? Not being snarky, genuinely curious.
 
Good discussion guys.

We aren't contenders no matter what we do. Rudy's value is as high as its ever gonna be.

Trade him. Get youth. Get multiple pieces. Hire a great coach. Pray

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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