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Game Thread Nov 13, 2022 05:30PM MT: Jazz at 76ers

Added to Calendar: 11-13-22

Tremendous Upside said:
Help me out here, guys.

It's one of those things where you think you see something... then you're like naaaaaaah, it's just my imagination. There's nothing there. But you just can't shake the feeling you actually DID see something. That's what happens to me now with every Jazz game I watch. And that's why I have to ask:

Are we stealth tanking already?

I mean... for all the talk about Hardy and how great a coach he is, he's making some truly baffling decisions lately that just don't seem to be conducive to winning basketball games.
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I do not think so... At this point, one thing that has been making people to think that, has been his rotations. It might be the organisation wants the most minutes and visiblity for certain assets that could have needed to rest a bit more, and the well performing bench getting more minutes.

Ainge has also talked about, or some insiders, that there is somewhat "20 games assessment period". It is well possible that our coach and also Ainge wants to see some different scenarios with all of them starters, in which we might even lose few games bc of that, but also getting intel of how certain assets are performing under different situations, so he knows enough of the future plans. How do them starters work together, which of them can handle situations A, B, and C, whether being gassed or fresh.
Of course these thoughts of mine considers mostly just the rotation,

Or then it is just a rookie coach having few lapses. As good as he is, he is still learning as some our younger players here.
Oh, and one thing more: I read that Hardy is throwing Lauri in different defensive and offensive schemes to find out how he responds. And even if KO or JC being older, their roles have not been this big... So I would not rule out he is trying different things with even the more marinated players to to know what kind of hand is he having. If this team loses few now and then, its not gonna bother them. It is still a developmental season, even if we end up to the post-season push. And for that, even if there will be failures sometimes, they just have to get the most information aout this team, espec. their starters, so knowing who to acquire as well, if it comesdown to that.

EDIT: Also, i don't get why were were "stealth tanking", not against philly at least: their pick is going to be the least favorable out of BKN and HOU, so I think that game is one of those we wanted to win even more. And wasnt far from it.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
Embiid is a giant. Lauri and KO both have PF type size. Neither of them is long like Kessler is. You don't play basketball with the top of your head.
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That's why I was pimping for Dok. He's about the same size, also went to Kansas. What was the worst that could happen given the way things were going? A couple of hard fouls and maybe the basket stops looking huge.
 
I'm still annoyed by Hardy. I can't say with 100% confidence he wanted to win this game no matter what.

Like someone said, if a superstar player is so red hot that it looks early on like he's gonna hang 60 on you, you take the ball out of his hands. Yes, Embiid will usually find the open man, and you live with that. I don't have a problem seeing if Niang and Harris can beat you if the alternative is watching Embiid score or go the FT line every time he touches the ball. That's basketball 101. Playing this guy on single coverage when he gets going like that is insane. There is literally nobody in the league who can stop him.

Just a bad coaching job. And somehow it's far worse if he did it on purpose.

We're far enough into the season that you start seeing different tendencies. Hardy obviously has a tendency where he coaches really passively. He'll adjust rotations and (reluctantly) call obvious timeouts, but he never challenges calls, never makes drastic changes to defensive strategy even when the situations demands it. He lets the players "figure it out" on offense a bit too much to my liking: he lives and dies by his ballhandlers. He shrugs if they're hot, he shrugs if they're cold. He shrugs if they pass the ball, he shrugs when they hog it.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
I'm still annoyed by Hardy. I can't say with 100% confidence he wanted to win this game no matter what.

Like someone said, if a superstar player is so red hot that it looks early on like he's gonna hang 60 on you, you take the ball out of his hands. Yes, Embiid will usually find the open man, and you live with that. I don't have a problem seeing if Niang and Harris can beat you if the alternative is watching Embiid score or go the FT line every time he touches the ball. That's basketball 101. Playing this guy on single coverage when he gets going like that is insane. There is literally nobody in the league who can stop him.

Just a bad coaching job. And somehow it's far worse if he did it on purpose.

We're far enough into the season that you start seeing different tendencies. Hardy obviously has a tendency where he coaches really passively. He'll adjust rotations and (reluctantly) call obvious timeouts, but he never challenges calls, never makes drastic changes to defensive strategy even when the situations demands it. He lets the players "figure it out" on offense a bit too much to my liking: he lives and dies by his ballhandlers. He shrugs if they're hot, he shrugs if they're cold. He shrugs if they pass the ball, he shrugs when they hog it.
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Coaches dont tank. Its not good for their careers.

Hardy tried all our bigger guys on Embiid, but there was no stopping him with 1 in that game as he kept hitting his fadeaways. Hardy made a choice to not double him, which resulted in Embiid having a career night but the tradeoff was that the other 76ers were not getting the space they usually do. Embiid also got only 1 offensive board in the entire game, because he was posting up all game.

Embiid played 40 minutes the night before. It was fair to assume he might get tired towards the end. That didn't really happen though.

Hard to call a road loss to a borderline contender "bad coaching job" on a night where we shot 39/29/56 and lost by 7 only..
 
hard to assess a teams performance on a b2b. especially like us whose offense is ball movement. Hardy probably didn't push the guys too much. we missed 10 FTs and lost by 7 and Embiid with a monster game. very winnable game no need to panic
 
Tremendous Upside said:
I'm still annoyed by Hardy. I can't say with 100% confidence he wanted to win this game no matter what.

Like someone said, if a superstar player is so red hot that it looks early on like he's gonna hang 60 on you, you take the ball out of his hands. Yes, Embiid will usually find the open man, and you live with that. I don't have a problem seeing if Niang and Harris can beat you if the alternative is watching Embiid score or go the FT line every time he touches the ball. That's basketball 101. Playing this guy on single coverage when he gets going like that is insane. There is literally nobody in the league who can stop him.

Just a bad coaching job. And somehow it's far worse if he did it on purpose.

We're far enough into the season that you start seeing different tendencies. Hardy obviously has a tendency where he coaches really passively. He'll adjust rotations and (reluctantly) call obvious timeouts, but he never challenges calls, never makes drastic changes to defensive strategy even when the situations demands it. He lets the players "figure it out" on offense a bit too much to my liking: he lives and dies by his ballhandlers. He shrugs if they're hot, he shrugs if they're cold. He shrugs if they pass the ball, he shrugs when they hog it.
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To be fair to Hardy I think he is still figuring stuff out on the court as much as learning what his team is capable of. It is hard to complain about much when he has had less than 1/4 of the season to even see what the team can do, let alone to be able to make the right adjustments at the right time every single time. He is still developing his "system" as well. And with the team as obviously fatigued as they were for the Philly game I think he was trying to just let them play through it, Maybe they saw it as a schedule loss. He made mistakes too, no doubt, but to start throwing around the "this is exactly who Hardy is as a coach" card is more than premature, it is borderline ridiculous.
 
HermanG said:
Coaches dont tank. Its not good for their careers.

Hardy tried all our bigger guys on Embiid, but there was no stopping him with 1 in that game as he kept hitting his fadeaways. Hardy made a choice to not double him, which resulted in Embiid having a career night but the tradeoff was that the other 76ers were not getting the space they usually do. Embiid also got only 1 offensive board in the entire game, because he was posting up all game.

Embiid played 40 minutes the night before. It was fair to assume he might get tired towards the end. That didn't really happen though.

Hard to call a road loss to a borderline contender "bad coaching job" on a night where we shot 39/29/56 and lost by 7 only..
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Honestly the one thing he did not try in the 4th was Kessler, and he probably should have. Kessler at least has the size and defensive instincts that both Lauri and KO are missing. He should have run the 3-big lineup at some point with Kessler, Lauri and KO in the front court together to at least always have a big body on him if we had to switch, and he should have run more zone at them, imo. We will see what they learn from that game and how it gets applied in subsequent games.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Honestly the one thing he did not try in the 4th was Kessler, and he probably should have. Kessler at least has the size and defensive instincts that both Lauri and KO are missing. He should have run the 3-big lineup at some point with Kessler, Lauri and KO in the front court together to at least always have a big body on him if we had to switch, and he should have run more zone at them, imo. We will see what they learn from that game and how it gets applied in subsequent games.
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He had Kessler covering Embiid in the 1st half for a while. That was one of the first adjustments he made after KO struggled initially. Guess he felt like it wasnt enough of an improvement and he wanted our best offensive guys in late.

Cant really blame him, we did great in defensive rebounding (76.5%) and only allowed 105 (107.6 DRtg). So our defense wasnt bad overall.
 
I think Lauri was on him most of the 4th. I dont know why, probably KO had too many fouls or smth.
 
HermanG said:
He had Kessler covering Embiid in the 1st half for a while. That was one of the first adjustments he made after KO struggled initially. Guess he felt like it wasnt enough of an improvement and he wanted our best offensive guys in late.

Cant really blame him, we did great in defensive rebounding (76.5%) and only allowed 105 (107.6 DRtg). So our defense wasnt bad overall.
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No coaching can help that kind of poor offense at the end of the game from a normally very elite offense and that was the main reason we lost. I personally think the team just looked done with the game and worn out pretty early on both ends.
 
HermanG said:
Coaches dont tank. Its not good for their careers.

Hardy tried all our bigger guys on Embiid, but there was no stopping him
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He didn't try Kessler on Embiid at all in the 2nd half. At all.

If Kessler prevented Embiid from scoring on nearly 100% of his shots it would have been a massive improvement.

HermanG said:
Guess he felt like it wasnt enough of an improvement and he wanted our best offensive guys in late.
Click to expand...

He had Vanderbilt in. So no.
 
MT Steve said:
He didn't try Kessler on Embiid at all in the 2nd half. At all.

If Kessler prevented Embiid from scoring on nearly 100% of his shots it would have been a massive improvement.



He had Vanderbilt in. So no.
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I never said he tried everyone in the 2nd half. Please read before ripping your shirt. In fact, just few posts down I specifically said he had Kessler in to defend him in the first half.

I dont know why he had Vando in late, but Hardy likes him and Kessler/KO/Lauri combo might not work to his liking as he rarely seems to run them. Probably too slow to cover wings from driving in and tough on guard switches.
 
HermanG said:
I never said he tried everyone in the 2nd half. Please read before ripping your shirt. In fact, just few posts down I specifically said he had Kessler in to defend him in the first half.
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Your argument was that he exhausted all options. Clearly, he did not.

HermanG said:
I dont know why he had Vando in late
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Stop there.

You said he didn't try Kessler for offensive purposes. But since Vando was in late, that argument makes no sense.
 
MT Steve said:
Your argument was that he exhausted all options. Clearly, he did not.


Stop there.

You said he didn't try Kessler for offensive purposes. But since Vando was in late, that argument makes no sense.
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It was such a head scratching move not to try Kessler on him in the 4th. It makes zero sense and is probably the dumbest coaching decision that I have ever seen. Even the worst coach in the world would have tried bigger players on Embiid in that situation.
 
sip said:
It was such a head scratching move not to try Kessler on him in the 4th. It makes zero sense and is probably the dumbest coaching decision that I have ever seen. Even the worst coach in the world would have tried bigger players on Embiid in that situation.
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Ehh, the Jazz couldn't score with the spaced lineups they were playing. You put Kessler in and you are just doing Embiid a huge favor on defense. Hes also eating a rookie alive like baby food. Jazz had a much better chance at outscoring Philly than getting consistent stops on Embiid, so play to the strong offensive lineup over the defensive lineup.

The bigger crime was not giving THT more minutes
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ehh, the Jazz couldn't score with the spaced lineups they were playing. You put Kessler in and you are just doing Embiid a huge favor on defense. Hes also eating a rookie alive like baby food. Jazz had a much better chance at outscoring Philly than getting consistent stops on Embiid, so play to the strong offensive lineup over the defensive lineup.

The bigger crime was not giving THT more minutes
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I could buy this argument if we also didn't have Vanderbilt out there instead of just going 5-out and rolling with Lauri at the 5.
 
MT Steve said:
Your argument was that he exhausted all options. Clearly, he did not.


Stop there.

You said he didn't try Kessler for offensive purposes. But since Vando was in late, that argument makes no sense.
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Thanks for telling me what my argument was, except it wasnt an argument (just stating what happened) and you still didnt read it correctly even though I asked you to. I said he tried all our bigs on Embiid.

In my opinion Vando is better than Kessler offensively. Do you disagree? If not, then my argument there makes sense.

PS. go watch last 3 minutes of 1st quarter (Kessler on Embiid minutes). After watching, does it feel like its a good idea to go back to that?

They ran iso with Embiid on every drive when Kessler was in. Embiid drove and shot at will on him. Only time Kessler stopped or slowed him was when he fouled him.

Here are few of those plays:

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.
www.nba.com www.nba.com

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
 
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