Just because AIO self immolated his account doesn't mean OB, a multi-decade poster here, also has 0 credibility. OB could run a deficit for years and still be in the positive.
The Biden Administration and All Things Politics
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Bucknutz
Well-Known Member
Still didn’t answer it. Should that book be banned from public elementary schools? I’ll even make it easier on you. K-5 elementary schools?
Absolutely, I could be more professional about this.
The images presented are not graphic at all. They are very sparsely drawn cartoons. I find it interesting that you insist they are sexually arousing drawings. Is that because they arouse you?
Furthermore, that's not the claim I disputed. I disputed "It is the intentions of the producer of the work, and the producer of this work has been crystal clear the intended audience is the demographic that would find one boy blowing another to be sexually arousing."
Adults finding a simplistic drawing of kids having sex to be arousing is pretty creepy, regardless of the genders of the kids involved. I wonder why this is not obvious to you.
Bucknutz
Well-Known Member
Sure, but I have little patience left for OB. No effort, demands proof but doesn’t provide any, try’s to twist statements up, doesn’t answer questions. Just asks questions for gotcha moments. Honestly just a waste of time. He has no good faith in debating.
So, you support first graders reading about semen flowing like the emissions of donkeys in Ezekiel, and have a problem with "Gender Queer". I think the graphicness of the work is not the entirety of the issue.
The book does not belong in K-5 schools, and should be removed if it is there. I don't know why it has not been clear that is my opinion.
I wish I could recreate the graffiti that existed under the I-80 overpass over the Jordan River in SLC. I lived very very close to this when I was 2 to 10 years old from '79 to '87. There was the standard D and balls stick figure quality image and a "V" with a line vertically through it with a crude attempt at pubic hair with a stick figure female with ASCII quality boobs. There were also some "F" words and such spray painted there. Oh, and there were man poops to dodge.
I had sex and ate dat ***** when I was 13 years old. My GF was 14 at the time (high fives all around, thank you very much).
There isn't anything in those earlier posted images that I hadn't seen before I was 10. Yeah, the school library probably isn't the right place for that. But at the same time this is not some kind of tragedy.
I had to go to my kids elementary school when they were in 4th grade because they searched the school library computer for "wet p****" and my kid's teacher was hot and told me what was searched for. Fun times.
Kids aren't as innocent as we think, hope, want, expect that they are.
Sure, take those books out of schools and high fives all around for saving the children. Imagine your amazing victory over evil as if it is real. It isn't.
I had sex and ate dat ***** when I was 13 years old. My GF was 14 at the time (high fives all around, thank you very much).
There isn't anything in those earlier posted images that I hadn't seen before I was 10. Yeah, the school library probably isn't the right place for that. But at the same time this is not some kind of tragedy.
I had to go to my kids elementary school when they were in 4th grade because they searched the school library computer for "wet p****" and my kid's teacher was hot and told me what was searched for. Fun times.
Kids aren't as innocent as we think, hope, want, expect that they are.
Sure, take those books out of schools and high fives all around for saving the children. Imagine your amazing victory over evil as if it is real. It isn't.
Bucknutz
Well-Known Member
You just ripped Al about his postings and you do this…
Here is the verse everyone…get ready I mean it’s really perverse:
20For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
This is why you’re a waste of time and you don’t have any credibility.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
19 Yet she increased her whoring. She remembered the days of her youth when she acted like a prostitute in the land of Egypt. 20 She lusted after her paramours, whose genitals[a] were like the genitals of donkeys and whose ejaculation was like the ejaculation of horses. 21 So you revisited the lewdness of your youth when your nipples were caressed in Egypt, and your young breasts were fondled.
Evangelical Heritage Version
Ezekiel 23:19-21
19 She became more of a prostitute than ever, acting the way she did as a young woman, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 She was filled with lust for oversexed men who had all the lustfulness of donkeys or stallions.” (21 Oholibah, you wanted to repeat the immorality you were guilty of as a young woman in Egypt, where men played with your breasts and you lost your virginity.)
Ezekiel 23:19-21
19 Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. 20 She lusted after her lovers there, whose genitals were like those of donkeys,[a] and whose emission was like that of stallions. 21 This is how you assessed[b] the obscene conduct of your youth, when the Egyptians fondled[c] your nipples and squeezed[d] your young breasts.
www.biblegateway.com
*shrug*
Evangelical Heritage Version
Ezekiel 23:19-21
Good News Translation
19 She became more of a prostitute than ever, acting the way she did as a young woman, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 She was filled with lust for oversexed men who had all the lustfulness of donkeys or stallions.” (21 Oholibah, you wanted to repeat the immorality you were guilty of as a young woman in Egypt, where men played with your breasts and you lost your virginity.)Ezekiel 23:19-21
New English Translation
19 Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. 20 She lusted after her lovers there, whose genitals were like those of donkeys,[a] and whose emission was like that of stallions. 21 This is how you assessed[b] the obscene conduct of your youth, when the Egyptians fondled[c] your nipples and squeezed[d] your young breasts.
Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 23:19-21 - New English Translation
Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after her lovers there, whose genitals were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. This is how you assessed the obscene conduct...
*shrug*
One Brow provides a lot of evidence in my opinion. I won't defend every one of One Brow's posts, I have no interest in doing so, and you may have a point here and there. My general sentiment is that One Brow supports his points and asks valid questions.
Fun fact, when I first joined jazzfanz I was a hardcore Objectivist type (not quite OPAR level, but OPAR sympathetic for sure) Libertarian. Fair to say that One Brow and I were generally not in agreement. He was as patient and persistent with me as he has been with many posters since. He legitimately helped me explore my own ideas and assumptions.
I was often the one person defending a position against the "mob" back then. Many people were downright hostile towards me. Being a good Objectivist I embraced the opposition and responded tirelessly to every challenge. One Brow, after years, literally years, pushed me to ask myself questions that I eventually ran out of answers for.
Spoiler alert, Objectivism fell apart for me on the topic of coercion. There was really no answer for it. I don't think One Brow was even the one to suggest that. I think his persistent questioning eventually led me to consider it as I was working on yet another rebuttal to one of his posts.
Anyway.
Bucknutz
Well-Known Member
Coercion? That would be an interesting conversation . That could be associated with many different topics. I see if that is still in this sites history.
It isn't. This all happened before the crash of 2010, sadly.
Also, I don't think I made any kind of big announcement. I tried to figure out the "coercion problem" on my own for a very long time while still supporting Libertarianism and arguing for it on the site, while avoiding that topic. Again, it wasn't a subject that anyone pointed out to me. It was internal.
I used to say frequently that my version of libertarianism wasn't a place we could get to from here, that it would require a massive disruption to the current order of things and I'd defend my position by saying that I was arguing for an ideological truth not a utilitarian reality.
I have to go, unfortunately
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Bucknutz
Well-Known Member
19 Yet she increased her whoring. She remembered the days of her youth when she acted like a prostitute in the land of Egypt. 20 She lusted after her paramours, whose genitals[a] were like the genitals of donkeys and whose ejaculation was like the ejaculation of horses. 21 So you revisited the lewdness of your youth when your nipples were caressed in Egypt, and your young breasts were fondled.
Evangelical Heritage Version
Ezekiel 23:19-21
Good News Translation
19 She became more of a prostitute than ever, acting the way she did as a young woman, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 She was filled with lust for oversexed men who had all the lustfulness of donkeys or stallions.” (21 Oholibah, you wanted to repeat the immorality you were guilty of as a young woman in Egypt, where men played with your breasts and you lost your virginity.)
Ezekiel 23:19-21
New English Translation
19 Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. 20 She lusted after her lovers there, whose genitals were like those of donkeys,[a] and whose emission was like that of stallions. 21 This is how you assessed[b] the obscene conduct of your youth, when the Egyptians fondled[c] your nipples and squeezed[d] your young breasts.
Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 23:19-21 - New English Translation
Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after her lovers there, whose genitals were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. This is how you assessed the obscene conduct...
*shrug*
Why stop there? Why didn’t you include these?
20 She wanted men who behaved like animals in their sexual desire.
20 For she lusted upon their pilagshim (illicit lovers), whose basar is as the basar of chamorim, and whose issue is like the issue of susim.
20 And she was wild in lechery on the lying-by of them, whose fleshes be as the fleshes of asses, and as the members of horses be the members of them. (And she was mad with lechery in their lyings-by, whose flesh be like donkeys’ flesh, and their members be like horses’ members.)
20 But that didn’t bother her. She turned to even greater prostitution, sinning with the lustful men she remembered from her youth when she was a prostitute in Egypt.
20 She eagerly wanted to go to bed with Egyptian men, who were famous for their sexual powers
I posted the most used version.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Try the five post string starting with this one for some old Gameface.
Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking
Lmao. See a shrink? Never bro. Needing mental health help is a leftist issue. Reall men build character through the challenges of life. That explains a lot about you. Tell me more about this real man and this fake man.
You quoted a verse saying exactly what I said.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
We already have safeguards in place for K-12 curriculum and library books. There were already procedures to challenge books. Why are some of you acting like there wasn’t any procedure until Chris Rufo made this a fear in 2021-2022 on Tucker’s show? You don’t think there haven’t been concerned white women groups, like “Mom’s for Liberty” before? What do you think citizens councils were in the 1960s? If you don’t like the curriculum, have you contacted your state school board member? If you don’t like a book, have you submitted a review request at your school? Or have you merely yelled at a district school board meeting mindlessly about books you saw on Facebook and Fox News? This happened locally here in Utah. The district in question didn’t even own the books that people were screaming about.
The issue is that a loud group of parents who watch too much Fox News and are being organized (and paid) by groups already looking to hurt public education so they can privatize it (and make money off of it), are trying to bypass procedures. They want to impose their will on the public education system without following the procedures. It’s much easier to intimidate and scare school boards and librarians through mob action than to follow procedures and present your case in a rational manner. We’ve also seen this lately. Whether it be Covid mandates or elections. The right would rather scream in a cashier’s face rather than abide by the store’s mask requirement. They’d rather try and hang the vice president then admit that their guy lost an election.
We’ve had book bans and other moral crisis before. Whether it be integration in the 50s and 60s or Satanic Panic in the 70s and 80s. Those prior instances also included white middle class conservatives freaking out over changes to culture. This isn’t that much different either. The main difference between now and then is that there are a group of billionaires (the DeVos Family being a big part of this. They’re everything conservatives claim Soros is) who are well organized and are looking to benefit financially by privatizing public education. they’ve successfully tied this drive to privatize public education to political identity.
It’s much harder for public education proponents to field a defense because they don’t have a political party in their back pocket nor do they have a propaganda apparatus that tells millions of Americans every night that their enemies are groomers and child molesters. I feel for educators. They’re expected to teach, wipe every child’s butt, pander to parents, protect schools from shooters when the police are cowering in fear, vilified for every little thing, and are blamed for every ill in society. No wonder why we have such a teacher shortage in this country!
EDIT: Most book ban requests in Utah have been filed by a handful of parents associated with the Facebook group “Utah Parents United.” What’s *shocking* is that many of these parents are well known lobbyists for vouchers and advocates of homeschooling. Some even have ties to the Heritage Foundation and the DeVos family. What a mystery as to why they’d want to overload the school system with ban requests and diminish the public’s trust in public schools /s
kutv.com
The issue is that a loud group of parents who watch too much Fox News and are being organized (and paid) by groups already looking to hurt public education so they can privatize it (and make money off of it), are trying to bypass procedures. They want to impose their will on the public education system without following the procedures. It’s much easier to intimidate and scare school boards and librarians through mob action than to follow procedures and present your case in a rational manner. We’ve also seen this lately. Whether it be Covid mandates or elections. The right would rather scream in a cashier’s face rather than abide by the store’s mask requirement. They’d rather try and hang the vice president then admit that their guy lost an election.
We’ve had book bans and other moral crisis before. Whether it be integration in the 50s and 60s or Satanic Panic in the 70s and 80s. Those prior instances also included white middle class conservatives freaking out over changes to culture. This isn’t that much different either. The main difference between now and then is that there are a group of billionaires (the DeVos Family being a big part of this. They’re everything conservatives claim Soros is) who are well organized and are looking to benefit financially by privatizing public education. they’ve successfully tied this drive to privatize public education to political identity.
It’s much harder for public education proponents to field a defense because they don’t have a political party in their back pocket nor do they have a propaganda apparatus that tells millions of Americans every night that their enemies are groomers and child molesters. I feel for educators. They’re expected to teach, wipe every child’s butt, pander to parents, protect schools from shooters when the police are cowering in fear, vilified for every little thing, and are blamed for every ill in society. No wonder why we have such a teacher shortage in this country!
EDIT: Most book ban requests in Utah have been filed by a handful of parents associated with the Facebook group “Utah Parents United.” What’s *shocking* is that many of these parents are well known lobbyists for vouchers and advocates of homeschooling. Some even have ties to the Heritage Foundation and the DeVos family. What a mystery as to why they’d want to overload the school system with ban requests and diminish the public’s trust in public schools /s
Only small group of parents utilizing new law to help ban books in Utah school libraries
In the last legislative session, proponents of Utah House Bill 374 argued passionately that Utah school libraries were inundated with unsuitable reading materia
kutv.com
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
For those who will undoubtedly take this opportunity to attack public education, let me stop you right there. Every Career has pros and cons. So I ask that you Go and work at a local public school and compare it with other jobs you’ve had. From Ogden to Nebo, there are plenty of openings in a variety of positions. Give it a try for a year. I have connections in most of these districts. DM me if you’re interested and I can provide you with more information. Best of luck!
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Red
Well-Known Member
Wow, just unbelievable that you have no idea what you're talking about when you post. None. Lets looks at some rankings that come out every year and check on 2023.
View attachment 14496
It doesn't look like its dying, more like its thriving!!!
Lets see some benefits of going to school in Florida...
Don't like that people are bringing up books that are not age appropriate in public schools?
Great, we have School Choice! Where every k-12 student has an option to go to private school with a $7700 scholarship.
Explore Scholarships For Pre-K To 12 Students In Florida
Step Up For Students extends a variety of scholarship options to Florida families, supporting customized education for every student’s path.www.stepupforstudents.org
View attachment 14497
What's the cost of some private schools around me?
View attachment 14498
View attachment 14499
View attachment 14500
2024-2025 CBCS Fee Schedule
CBCS FEE SCHEDULE FOR 2024-2025 REGISTRATION FEE: (Non-refundable/Non-transferable) $75 for Infants-K4 $150 for K5-12th grade BOOK & RESOURCE FEE (Due Sept. 15) Elementary K5-5th $450 Middle School 6th-8th $500 High School 9th-12th $550 ($100 for Toddlers-K4 to cover yearbook & curr...docs.google.com
View attachment 14501
I can keep going, because there are 17 private schools within a 7 mile radius of where I live. So 3/4 of these schools are covered by the scholarship. Amazing!
What if you don't like private schools what are the other options?
14 Charters schools in this same radius.
4 Homeschool Organizations with physical locations to meet in.
Florida Virtual - https://www.flvs.net/ - Online school, if you don't want to go to a physical school location
Duel Enrollment - https://www.fldoe.org/schools/higher-ed/fl-college-system/dual-enroll-transfer/ - Where you can go to college in your Junior and Senior years, online, in person or in high school.
That's a lot of options in my area with about the same population size of Washington County Ut.
Now let's talk about Higher Education. As a resident of Florida, they give you a great option to pay for college:
What they will pay:
How to earn it:
Thanks Florida Lottery, for helping out students of Florida!
Yes, it takes one bigoted person to turn in a complaint. Guess what they didn't ban the book.
From the article you posted:
School: Book was moved, not banned
Officials at the school defended their actions and say they haven't banned the book.
"No literature (books or poem) has been banned or removed," the school said in a statement. "It was determined at the school that 'The Hill We Climb' is better suited for middle school students and, it was shelved in the middle school section of the media center. The book remains available in the media center."
Wow, your post made it sound much worse than it actually was.
Now, let's talk about actual books that were removed from schools, or should be removed. Im going to ask @The Thriller for the 3rd time, if this book should be allowed in schools? Not just schools, elementary and middles schools.
View: https://twitter.com/NikkiFried/status/1634356099016007680?s=20
What about this? What age should this be allowed in public school. I want an actual answer. Age or grade. What's age appropriate for these books?
View attachment 14502
View attachment 14503View attachment 14504
Because these books and others like them are in public schools. These books are in Hillsborough County Schools, elementary, middle and high school. 14, 13 and 34 copies are or were in the schools.
I feel like I'm Toby from the Office...
View: https://youtu.be/FdJpweIPbWw?t=79
All the credit in the world for your investment in time. When I said “Florida, where education goes to die”, I’m sure I was thinking on DeSantis’s crackdown on academic freedom and tenure. I cannot imagine many academics eager to teach at a public college/university in Florida. Most academics are going to value academic freedom and tenure. I doubt it’s something they want to see curtailed or limited…I was there briefly, academia that is, and I would not want to stand for it.
Florida faculty fight grave threat to tenure, academic freedom
Tenure is on the chopping block in Florida, and faculty are fighting mightily to snatch it back to safety. From a tenure review proposal to a law that restricts how faculty can teach about systemic racism and gender discrimination, the threat to academia is “unprecedented,” says United Faculty...
Anyway, that is what I am referring to when I say education goes to die in Florida. I guess I should have spelled it right out, but I have posted several times regarding Florida’s crackdown on academic freedom in their institutions of higher learning, and was not thinking “I’m confusing issues here”. I’m sure much of it stems from conservative concerns that public institutions of higher learning are liberal breeding grounds. But, granted a liberal bias can exist in some departments, the solution is not to make sure independent minds are kept in check.
That said, the posting was about the school department removing that poem, and I can’t say I understand why this child’s poem needed to be removed.
Red
Well-Known Member
But I do….I know exactly what I’m talking about.
AAUP calls to fight "tooth and nail" in DeSantis's Florida
“Florida’s public colleges and universities currently face a politically and ideologically driven assault unparalleled in U.S. history,” a preliminary report says.
The American Association of University Professors released today a preliminary report sounding alarm about Florida higher education under Ron DeSantis’s governorship—and calling for academe to fight back.
“It is imperative that we pay attention to the dire situation in Florida now,” the report says. “What is happening in Florida will not stay in Florida. We call on all professional organizations, unions, faculty, staff and administrators across the country to fight such ‘reforms’ tooth and nail and to offer support to our colleagues in Florida however they can. We are in this together.”
DeSantis’s press secretary responded in an email, “Florida is No. 1 in higher education, and Governor DeSantis intends to keep it that way.”
Florida again targets faculty tenure at universities. Here’s why that matters.
As Gov. Ron DeSantis and lawmakers push for tighter controls in higher education, critics say it threatens the state’s reputation.
www.tampabay.com
FL Governor DeSantis’ Proposals on Higher Education Pose a Grave Threat to Academic Freedom and Free Speech at Public Colleges and Universities - PEN America
PEN America today called Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’s announcement of a broad outline of legislation to restrict the historic autonomy of higher education “a grave threat to free speech and academic freedom” at Florida’s public colleges and universities.
pen.org
DeSantis-backed New College board scraps 5 professors tenure
The New College of Florida trustees now dominated by conservatives appointed by Gov. Ron DeSantis voted Wednesday to deny tenure to five professors, overriding concerns by faculty and students that the decision poses a threat to academic freedom.
apnews.com
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