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What’s the point of this season?

Tremendous Upside said:
How about Collins? Lauri? Both are useful vet assets for carrying out a scorched-earth rebuild who will only make it harder to bottom out if they play. They're on the wrong timeline too.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because I'm genuinely interested in the logic of the kind of mid-season U-turn some people keep suggesting in case we have a terrible start. Like last season, Lauri in particular is the elephant in the room who's complicating everything.

Collins won't fit a tank project either. I don't think he's interested in the kind of multiyear losing streak we're talking about here. He wanted a fresh start, and standing in the corner spacing the floor for a bunch of youngins probably isn't his idea of a good time.
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i'd be on board with trading Collins if they want to go tank mode, but you can keep Lauri (and i believe you should) and still tank hard. Lauri is good, but he's not good enough to carry Key, Sensabaugh, Hendricks, Juzang, Fontecchio and Potter to more than ~20 wins.
 
My two cents. The Jazz FO in the past had a plan. The current front office is opportunistic. I am sure they have a general idea of where they want to go but they pursue options that seem like a good deal and then figure out how to make it work. I am in the great minority but I still see no reason that we traded both Donny and Rudy. I get why we needed to get rid of one of them. We got "assets" that people fell in love with and as part of the process we lost relevance in any kind of win/loss or playoff conversation. It is weird to me that people are more excited about trade deadlines and draft day than they are about winning. I have no problem with a rebuild and have lived through several of those in my time as a Jazz fan. The question I have from a fan standpoint is, how long with the fans be fine with this process and not being good when it it was all self inflicted? Getting players like Rudy and Donny in Utah is not an easy thing to do. I still wonder what could have been if we had hung on to one of them and made trade and asset accumulation around making a great team instead of blowing it up while they were still in their prime. Flame away. I know it is an unpopular take.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
How about Collins? Lauri? Both are useful vet assets for carrying out a scorched-earth rebuild who will only make it harder to bottom out if they play. They're on the wrong timeline too.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because I'm genuinely interested in the logic of the kind of mid-season U-turn some people keep suggesting in case we have a terrible start. Like last season, Lauri in particular is the elephant in the room who's complicating everything.

Collins won't fit a tank project either. I don't think he's interested in the kind of multiyear losing streak we're talking about here. He wanted a fresh start, and standing in the corner spacing the floor for a bunch of youngins probably isn't his idea of a good time.
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Ya, collins too. I like lauri and want to keep him though.
 
gomretat said:
My two cents. The Jazz FO in the past had a plan. The current front office is opportunistic. I am sure they have a general idea of where they want to go but they pursue options that seem like a good deal and then figure out how to make it work. I am in the great minority but I still see no reason that we traded both Donny and Rudy. I get why we needed to get rid of one of them. We got "assets" that people fell in love with and as part of the process we lost relevance in any kind of win/loss or playoff conversation. It is weird to me that people are more excited about trade deadlines and draft day than they are about winning. I have no problem with a rebuild and have lived through several of those in my time as a Jazz fan. The question I have from a fan standpoint is, how long with the fans be fine with this process and not being good when it it was all self inflicted? Getting players like Rudy and Donny in Utah is not an easy thing to do. I still wonder what could have been if we had hung on to one of them and made trade and asset accumulation around making a great team instead of blowing it up while they were still in their prime. Flame away. I know it is an unpopular take.
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Its a fine take. I bet you would be super happy if we win a championship in 5 years due to those trades though.
 
gomretat said:
My two cents. The Jazz FO in the past had a plan. The current front office is opportunistic. I am sure they have a general idea of where they want to go but they pursue options that seem like a good deal and then figure out how to make it work. I am in the great minority but I still see no reason that we traded both Donny and Rudy. I get why we needed to get rid of one of them. We got "assets" that people fell in love with and as part of the process we lost relevance in any kind of win/loss or playoff conversation. It is weird to me that people are more excited about trade deadlines and draft day than they are about winning. I have no problem with a rebuild and have lived through several of those in my time as a Jazz fan. The question I have from a fan standpoint is, how long with the fans be fine with this process and not being good when it it was all self inflicted? Getting players like Rudy and Donny in Utah is not an easy thing to do. I still wonder what could have been if we had hung on to one of them and made trade and asset accumulation around making a great team instead of blowing it up while they were still in their prime. Flame away. I know it is an unpopular take.
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Well, based on history of some other sports, apparently fans in general will be ok with it for a hundred years or more. I have my doubts this franchise will ever be able to put a team on the floor capable of winning it all. Closest we came was Stockton and Malone of course, second closest might have been the team we just blew up. Unless we luck into another Mitchell-type win in the mid- to late-first round, we are far more likely to remain irrelevant for decades to come.

Hate to be the Debbie Downer here but at some point we have to be somewhat realistic about this. During the last few playoff melt-down I came to terms with the fact that I'll likely never see a championship in Utah in my lifetime. But I'm still a fan and remain cautiously optimistic. But if you're really wondering how long the fans will put up with it, just check back in 2074 and see if we are still selling out games with nary a banner in the rafters. Likely we will be.
 
Here's the basic problem: Of all the stars in the league we have the one who gets the highest percentage of his shots as assisted, but we have one of the least capable passing teams in the league. We need to surround Lauri with guys who can get him the ball, but have surrounded him with guys who are looking to score first.
 
gomretat said:
Getting players like Rudy and Donny in Utah is not an easy thing to do. I still wonder what could have been if we had hung on to one of them and made trade and asset accumulation around making a great team instead of blowing it up while they were still in their prime.
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You don't have to go that far back to find a situation where a choice was made.

At the trade deadline last season, we were clearly at a crossroads. Ainge could have made a few aggressive deals to consolidate assets and strengthen the team, with the goal of retaining the momentum of the 1st half of the season and going hard for the playoffs. The opportunity was there.

As we all know, he took another path - a path that flushed the season down the toilet - for reasons that were never explained (don't tell me it was logical to tank, it was much too late for that). And we're still living with the consequences of that decision right now.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah that was a good piece of work with JC's contract....but still haha.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on the FO for being "idle". The truth might actually be that they tried for some bigger fish and just ended up failing. We know they wanted Porzingis and Holiday, who knows what other stars Danny almost acquired. I think it's a totally legit strategy to say, "we're only trading for a big fish"....but when you strike out, you strike out and you have this unspectacular team. So the failure might not be from coasting, but just not being able to score from the goal line.

I think we will sit in limbo until we find our big fish trade. Having Lauri makes it fairly difficult to tank, but Lauri is also the guy you tank for so I'm not too bothered. But the clock is ticking and while stars seem to move like crazy these days who knows who will actually become available.
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And at some point with the timing of when stars are traded on their contracts we will need to call someone’s bluff. We won’t be first on anyone’s list. This is if the strategy is to trade for a star… which I do believe it is… kinda. DA won’t be able to have it be a value play… gotta pay full sticker in those deals. We’ll see if he can stomach it.
 
outerspacefan said:
This season probably will end up being as pointless as last season.
Hopefully we will be as bad as we appear to be so the full tank just prevails on it's own (de)merit in spite of Jazz brass horrendous decision making and lack of balls.
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If Keyonte ends up being just as good as Scoot, then you’d be forced to upgrade your conclusion about last season. And if Tay Heny ends up a good player….

And, look, besides either of those things, providing a context for Lauri to break out—and for him to know he’s broken out—is pretty substantial in itself.

This year is about patience.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah…if you really think about what the Jazz accomplished this season, all they did is get John Collins. I think it’s good value in vacuum, but that’s about the extent to what they did. Turning cap space into John Collins (on a contract he would have not gotten in FA) is not exactly a masterpiece. The value of this off season really comes down to the rookies they drafted, so might as well see what we got and invest in them.

We can talk about the tanking/win now dilemma forever….but the fact of the matter is that the FO put this team in a **** position to win anything. There’s a reason why you play the games, but there’s also a reason why almost no one had us even making the play in.

They hit no buttons….I truly feel like the FO was happy to coast of the good vibes of last year.
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Filling out the roster with Fontecchio, Samanic and THT was a not-so-subtle tank move, imo. Jazz are holding their chips and shopping around for bargains on the trade market. I don't think they're committed to any of their players right now, with the possible exception of Lauri and Keyonte.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
And at some point with the timing of when stars are traded on their contracts we will need to call someone’s bluff. We won’t be first on anyone’s list. This is if the strategy is to trade for a star… which I do believe it is… kinda. DA won’t be able to have it be a value play… gotta pay full sticker in those deals. We’ll see if he can stomach it.
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I think that's part of the reason why a Quickley trade is so appealing. It's a unique situation where the other team is in a bind even though the player's future is team controlled with RFA. Maybe he's not a future all star like I believe he can be, but we wouldn't have to trade a star package for him.

Luka is the perfect guy and we have the perfect double agent Kyrie working for us....but I wouldn't really get my hopes up on that one. I feel as though we're probably looking a tier down in stars. Trae, Ingram, Siakam, Lavine ect. Those are the only guys that come to mind who could be moved soonish.
 
framer said:
I mean Kessler wasn't supposed to be playable as a starter this quickly either, he kind of bent the rebuild weirdly as well. Not sure that this is a problem.
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I'm not sure how the Jazz brass really feel about Kessler. He's a fun personality and a nice player, but I'm still not 100% convinced he's what Ainge and Hardy want in a 5.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Sure, but the Jazz are essentially the same team they were at the end of last season when they won at about a .350 clip.
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No, they are not at all. We had shut down most of who was left on that team. We had starters most games at that point that aren't in the NBA. We started winning after the trade and had to try real hard to lose at that point.
 
KqWIN said:
I think that's part of the reason why a Quickley trade is so appealing. It's a unique situation where the other team is in a bind even though the player's future is team controlled with RFA. Maybe he's not a future all star like I believe he can be, but we wouldn't have to trade a star package for him.

Luka is the perfect guy and we have the perfect double agent Kyrie working for us....but I wouldn't really get my hopes up on that one. I feel as though we're probably looking a tier down in stars. Trae, Ingram, Siakam, Lavine ect. Those are the only guys that come to mind who could be moved soonish.
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I would vomit continuously until I died if the Jazz brought in Trae.
 
KqWIN said:
I was dying to get Marcus Smart when we had Mitchell+Gobert. Like Josh Hart, would have been a great get at any point in time. But we missed our chance and that ship has sailed.
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I’m not totally sure about that. There’s some potential for a dumpster fire in Memphis. Did y’all read that in-depth ESPN piece recently on Ja?
 
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