Loki
Member
Queue colton....
Utah to the Pac 10? MWC to get BCS game?
- Thread starter SaltyDawg
- Start date
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
nope.
But if it makes you feel better about being left out, then keep pretending thats the reason.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
BYU doesn't have a med school - that's the big knock on their academic resume right now.
Pac 10 =/= everyone. They won't be left out - this whole realignment is going to be massive. It's only clueless Utah fans that act like BYU is not appealing to anyone. Pac 10 has never liked BYU because the Pac 10(at least enough schools to influence the decision) has never liked Mormons. It has nothing to do with BYU sporting events or academics. What exactly is academic about these conferences anyway? What ties them all together? It sure the hell isn't academics. These are geographical partnerships and T.V. markets, nothing more. BYU will end up in whatever the Big 12 becomes because the Big 12 schools consider morals legitimate and wont knock BYU for standing up for their beliefs.
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Loki said:
Heh. I believe this is what you were thinking of:
https://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/view_institution.php?unit_id=230038
using the link and 2 of the filters that apply to BYU, this is the list that came up:
L4/NR: Large four-year, primarily nonresidential
Basic RU/H: Research Universities (high research activity)
FWIW, there's not a single Big 10 or Pac 10 school on that list. Just using the RU/H filter comes up with 103 schools - again, no Pac 10 that I noticed.
I'm not sure I can figure out what other category it might be that would included those schools.
EDIT: Here are the corresponding categories for the Univ of Michigan & Univ or Illinois
Size and Setting: L4/R: Large four-year, primarily residential
Basic RU/VH: Research Universities (very high research activity)
https://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/institution.php
VERY HIGH research activity, primarily residential - guess that's at least part of the difference. Thanks for the link Colton, very informative.
AND here's the profile for University of Utah - again, it's VERY HIGH research and it has med/vet programs. That means LOTS of research dollars. There's probably also something about how where the research dollars are coming from - I'm not saying this is true, but if a large proportion of BYU's research dollars are coming from the LDS church rather than from a diverse variety of sources, that'd make an impact as well.
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CONAN
Well-Known Member
I don't care either way. Just telling you the facts, Little Brother. But if it makes you feel better to think otherwise, then keep pretending.
If academics were big on the Pac 10's list, Arizona State wouldn't be able to sniff membership.
Now if playing on Sunday is then BYU shouldn't be in. They shouldn't have to adjust their whole schedule because a team refuses to play on a certain day.
While I think the playing on Sunday thing is ridiculous, I can see how other people perceive it. You'd be a fool if you think that other conferences wouldn't want BYU to join them. Both Utah and BYU are consistently ranked every season in the top 25. Their programs speak for themselves.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
If BYU were college football's Notre Dame, the exception would be made, no? I understand as far as group think/adjustment goes, but I guess I just don't see the problem with moving a few events. Football and basketball seasons wouldn't matter until the tournaments come around. Adjusting single games is pretty easy. Are the tournaments/track meet type events the issue? Are there any viewership advantages to Sunday play?
I don't agree with BYU's stance by the way. I think Sunday is a great sporting day.
OK, did a little digging on the PAC-10 and games played on Sunday.
Football... zero. NCAA gets Saturday. NFL gets Sunday. That's just the way it is.
Basketball... 22 games. Of the 22 Sunday games, 17 were out of conference games that the schools schedule themselves. Only 5 were PAC-10 scheduled games. Of those 5 games, neither Stanford or Cal had to play a Sunday game. Seems like it would be VERY easy to work around BYU's policy of not playing on Sundays regarding the sport of basketball.
I haven't checked other programs such as gymnastics, baseball, golf, volleyball, track, etc.
Football... zero. NCAA gets Saturday. NFL gets Sunday. That's just the way it is.
Basketball... 22 games. Of the 22 Sunday games, 17 were out of conference games that the schools schedule themselves. Only 5 were PAC-10 scheduled games. Of those 5 games, neither Stanford or Cal had to play a Sunday game. Seems like it would be VERY easy to work around BYU's policy of not playing on Sundays regarding the sport of basketball.
I haven't checked other programs such as gymnastics, baseball, golf, volleyball, track, etc.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Facts? You never have brought a single "FACT" to a BYU/Utah debate. Just your completely false and pathetic beliefs and hype as shown earlier in this thread in the quote that was quoted by the other poster. .
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
BYU not playing on Sunday is absolutely a sticking point to any major conference.
Imagine the Pac 10 trying to negotiate a new TV deal and telling the potential partners that their new member won't play any sport on Sunday...
It is an issue. BYU is not even rumored to be involved in this conference expansion. Why do you think that is?
And LOL at BYU fans thinking they have some huge worldwide fan base. They might have slightly more fans than the average team outside of Utah, but it is certainly nothing significant. If it was a significant amount of fans, ESPN would be picking up every BYU game the contract allowed. That doesn't happen because BYU is just another team everywhere except in the state of Utah.
Imagine the Pac 10 trying to negotiate a new TV deal and telling the potential partners that their new member won't play any sport on Sunday...
It is an issue. BYU is not even rumored to be involved in this conference expansion. Why do you think that is?
And LOL at BYU fans thinking they have some huge worldwide fan base. They might have slightly more fans than the average team outside of Utah, but it is certainly nothing significant. If it was a significant amount of fans, ESPN would be picking up every BYU game the contract allowed. That doesn't happen because BYU is just another team everywhere except in the state of Utah.
I don't recall anyone arguing that BYU had a worldwide fanbase. Just that their fanbase was larger than Utah's, particularly outside of Utah. Now whether that number is significant or not, I'm not sure there is anyway to prove how much of a difference there really is. I don't know and neither do you beyond pure speculation.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Without the numbers, all we can do is look at how many games ESPN picks up. ESPN isn't going out of their way to put BYU on national tv more often than Utah, so either their fan base isn't any more significant than Utah's, or ESPN doesn't know/care about ratings.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Doesn't the Mountain West have a T.V. contract already? Maybe the argument could be made that if BYU were all that and a sack of money that ESPN might have kicked in the extra 10 million dollars or whatever the difference is between the MWC's current contract and the old contract. But I don't think the ESPN thing has any merit right now. I think that reflects more poorly on the other teams of our conference personally, not BYU/UTAH.
BYU has a pretty good demographic argument, however. You have Utah that's growing like crazy. You have Provo which is the fastest growing city in America. You have the Mormon church - which is churning out solid growth rates. BYU is the largest private school in America churning out graduates that add to a solid sized alumni base every year + BYU-Idaho + BYU- Hawaii . There shouldn't be any problems selling BYU by any standard.
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SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I don't know the specifics on the MWC tv contract, but I know Utah plays on ESPN a couple times every year. So BYU could certainly be playing on ESPN those weeks if ESPN wanted...
I agree with your points on the demographics though. But again, it all comes back to BYU not playing on Sundays. If BYU came with no strings attached, they would be in several conference expansion rumors, just like Utah currently is.
Captain Keefe
Well-Known Member
https://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747 Looks like Utah is possibly out as well. Bummer.
calijazz
Winner of the 2011 Jazzfanz mock draft contest
From what I've read on other boards and in reports, it looks as if Boise State is going to be invited as soon as next Monday to the MWC. It appears pretty legit. They would be in the conference by 2011. What are the thoughts of MWC fans of that possibility?
I think it would help legitimize the MWC but I think they'd need at least 1 if not 2 more top tier teams. If the Big 12 gets raided maybe the MWC can offer an invite to Nebraska.
BYU
Utah
BSU
TCU
Nebraska
Air Force
Col St
Wyo
SDSU
NM
UNLV
Am I missing anyone?
That's not a bad conference with a couple of exceptions.