Beantown
Well-Known Member
I think we've spoke about this before but did you know an Elder McCleary in South Korea?
Why can't people who leave the LDS church move on?
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
I think we've spoke about this before but did you know an Elder McCleary in South Korea?
pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
As a 21 year old that recently went through the hell of "falling away" from the church, I can tell you why it isn't easy to just get over it, or why I am bitter towards it.
The day finally came when I was supposed to serve a two year LDS mission and I chose otherwise. My "loving" mother and father were nice enough to counter with taking away my access to an Educational Fund that was paying for my college which was given to me by a wealthy uncle (not their money), they chose that access to a car was not necessary for me anymore, they decided a phone was not necessary either. They did everything in their power to leverage me into going, they tried to strike fear into me claiming my life would turn down a road into mediocrity and miserableness. They claimed there was no way for me to become a "man", good husband, or good father without attending.
I was lucky enough that I had other people in my life that helped support me for a while, get me on my feet. Going through that experience is what turned me into a man. Standing up for what I wanted, and how I wanted to live my life. Not live a lie which I know a lot of people personally that choose to do so. I chose the harder route.
So yes it is hard to move on, and I am bitter because what I experienced was the most non Christ-like behavior from people that claim they have the holy spirit guiding them and the light of Christ leading the way. So proving my parents wrong has become a goal of mine and thats exactly what I have been doing and that's why the church will never be fully out of my life and my parents will never move on and neither will I. I have an incredibly successful life for a 21 year old, I'm really happy and that feels great to say.
So minus a couple of posts on a sports forum, I'm not out parading around anti-mormonism like Beantown wants people to think all ex-members do.
You just gotta work hard and treat people right in this life, and everything will work out. All I need is that one sentence and my natural moral compass, but if somebody needs a thick book to live by, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would just hope God would judge on how you treat other people, I think that is the most important act and quality that should be assessed. That is what I hope a God would find important, if so I hope he would welcome me with loving arms and if its not, well I guess I'm **** outta luck. But that's the bet I am willing to take.
The day finally came when I was supposed to serve a two year LDS mission and I chose otherwise. My "loving" mother and father were nice enough to counter with taking away my access to an Educational Fund that was paying for my college which was given to me by a wealthy uncle (not their money), they chose that access to a car was not necessary for me anymore, they decided a phone was not necessary either. They did everything in their power to leverage me into going, they tried to strike fear into me claiming my life would turn down a road into mediocrity and miserableness. They claimed there was no way for me to become a "man", good husband, or good father without attending.
I was lucky enough that I had other people in my life that helped support me for a while, get me on my feet. Going through that experience is what turned me into a man. Standing up for what I wanted, and how I wanted to live my life. Not live a lie which I know a lot of people personally that choose to do so. I chose the harder route.
So yes it is hard to move on, and I am bitter because what I experienced was the most non Christ-like behavior from people that claim they have the holy spirit guiding them and the light of Christ leading the way. So proving my parents wrong has become a goal of mine and thats exactly what I have been doing and that's why the church will never be fully out of my life and my parents will never move on and neither will I. I have an incredibly successful life for a 21 year old, I'm really happy and that feels great to say.
So minus a couple of posts on a sports forum, I'm not out parading around anti-mormonism like Beantown wants people to think all ex-members do.
You just gotta work hard and treat people right in this life, and everything will work out. All I need is that one sentence and my natural moral compass, but if somebody needs a thick book to live by, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would just hope God would judge on how you treat other people, I think that is the most important act and quality that should be assessed. That is what I hope a God would find important, if so I hope he would welcome me with loving arms and if its not, well I guess I'm **** outta luck. But that's the bet I am willing to take.
^That's a great post and very telling about your personality and where you're at in life... meant as a compliment.
You didn't ask, but my advice is not to get too bitter towards God (whether He exists or not) and keep doing your thing. You're still very young and you may end up atheist, agnostic, Mormon, Baptist, whatever..... just be a good dude and don't shut the door on God completely.
You didn't ask, but my advice is not to get too bitter towards God (whether He exists or not) and keep doing your thing. You're still very young and you may end up atheist, agnostic, Mormon, Baptist, whatever..... just be a good dude and don't shut the door on God completely.
Safetydan
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Riley was my MTC companion. I haven't talked to him in a while. But, that's mostly because I live here in SK.
Some people leave the church behind and don't have anything to do with it. I think I'm a little unique in that despite not believing anything, my family is multi-generational mormon (since the beginning), but I still consider myself culturally Mormon. I invite missionaries to my house for dinner sometimes, and the stake president visited two weeks ago and was like "don't you want to get married in the temple and live with your family forever" and I'm just like "If I believed anything about the church, sure I would" but I didn't really believe anything two weeks ago and I don't now. My dad doesn't push me really, although you can tell that he hopes I would get back with it. I have four brothers who all are pretty much active, and they don't seem to care all that much. Maybe it's just that I just have a really laid back family.
~Safetydan.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Was it the religion that influenced your parents to be like that? Or would your parents be overbearing regardless of religion?
I know that a certain doctrine called "free agency" was ignored by your parents. As was the whole concept of "charity." When looking at the family proclamation and other church teachings, raising a family can be interpreted in varying techniques and methods. However, that whole forcing, over-extension, and taking away stuff that wasn't theirs to take away, is sort of the opposite of what the church teaches.
I wonder if your parents would find excuses in other christian denominations, Islamic groups, and eastern religions to rationalize their actions? This is more on your parents than on the church. If you were Muslim then chances are they would have taken away all that stuff to force you on a pilgrimage to Mecca.
And to be honest, I've never understood why parents use forms of bribery or punishment to force their kids on missions. Perhaps it's because of societal pressures? Or because parents can be jerks and way overbearing? But anyone that has actually been on a mission can tell you that the good to best missionaries are the ones that want to be there. Those who suck, are those who are merely there because of their family, friends, or want to get married easier.
IMO, people use the church to rationalize their overbearing and offensive words and deeds. While many blame the church for failed relationships which would have failed anyway regardless of religion. It's impossible to know for sure, but if it hadn't been your mission it probably would have been something else which would have driven a wedge between you folks. Heck, other issues were probably already boiling over when all of this went down anyway.
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Sneakers
Well-Known Member
I don't know man, that's an extremely bold assertion / assumption on your part. Who's in a better position to understand the psyche and the dynamic of his and his parents relationship? To just state that as a likelyhood... that's ridiculous, in my opinion
I come from a similar background and its is a tale as old as time... I've seen it happen with countless friends. The more resourceful ones can work their way out but too many of them buckle. In my opinion, it's naive to suggest that the overbearingness of his parents is not a result (at least in some substantial part) of the Mormon lifestyle / culture. It happens too many times to kids in that time of their life.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
IMO, many can't leave the church alone because they use it as leverage over others. While others use it to blame for their own shortcomings, failures, and frustrations.
Also, I think the church is too politically strong in Utah. This rubs a lot of people wrong. And let's be honest, many of our laws and policies don't make sense. The Zion Curtain. Recently, it was passed that in restaurants you could not serve anyone any alcohol until they had some form of food in front of them. What. The. Hell??????????? In Brazil, fallen away church members were rarely active against the church. Very few shared ill feelings. Many still would host missionaries and feed them. Why? One possible reason is that The church didn't carry much political power. Whereas, other churches (catholic or Igreja Universal) did. And many people resented that. Many even blamed that religion for their economic state. Same thing here in Utah... Somewhat the same in other western states perhaps.
Lastly, the church teaches of revelation. In particular, PERSONAL REVELATION. When you ask a preacher he may either tell you what to do or go week after it by reading the word. Mormons? Oftentimes the answer is to pray and fast. which creates an interesting dilemma that I've often pondered about:
No answer? God wins! It just means you must be patient and wait.
An answer that works out? God wins!
An answer that doesn't work out? God wins! Because he's giving you necessary experience which will help to prepare you for the right answer.
For many who either aren't patient with god, who are unable to keep things in perspective, or who just don't feel like they're receiving guidance, the temptation to quit, shrug your shoulders and say "I give up", and to become bitter is enormous.
I experienced it on my mission, especially. Experienced it since I've been home. Definitely became frustrated and nearly fell away when I was in difficult relationship, and have felt it even still in my career.
However, things have worked out. Even more so when I've humbled myself enough to just pray about it and then do what I know best. I may be a lil behind my high school class in terms of career and money. But who cares? I may be behind my mission class in terms of marriage and kids, but that doesn't matter. Just do what you can in your own capacity and things hopefully will work out. I'll keep saying that until they don't.
Also, I think the church is too politically strong in Utah. This rubs a lot of people wrong. And let's be honest, many of our laws and policies don't make sense. The Zion Curtain. Recently, it was passed that in restaurants you could not serve anyone any alcohol until they had some form of food in front of them. What. The. Hell??????????? In Brazil, fallen away church members were rarely active against the church. Very few shared ill feelings. Many still would host missionaries and feed them. Why? One possible reason is that The church didn't carry much political power. Whereas, other churches (catholic or Igreja Universal) did. And many people resented that. Many even blamed that religion for their economic state. Same thing here in Utah... Somewhat the same in other western states perhaps.
Lastly, the church teaches of revelation. In particular, PERSONAL REVELATION. When you ask a preacher he may either tell you what to do or go week after it by reading the word. Mormons? Oftentimes the answer is to pray and fast. which creates an interesting dilemma that I've often pondered about:
No answer? God wins! It just means you must be patient and wait.
An answer that works out? God wins!
An answer that doesn't work out? God wins! Because he's giving you necessary experience which will help to prepare you for the right answer.
For many who either aren't patient with god, who are unable to keep things in perspective, or who just don't feel like they're receiving guidance, the temptation to quit, shrug your shoulders and say "I give up", and to become bitter is enormous.
I experienced it on my mission, especially. Experienced it since I've been home. Definitely became frustrated and nearly fell away when I was in difficult relationship, and have felt it even still in my career.
However, things have worked out. Even more so when I've humbled myself enough to just pray about it and then do what I know best. I may be a lil behind my high school class in terms of career and money. But who cares? I may be behind my mission class in terms of marriage and kids, but that doesn't matter. Just do what you can in your own capacity and things hopefully will work out. I'll keep saying that until they don't.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's an assumption. And I don't know anything about his family. So take it with a grain of salt.
Typically, I see overbearing parents as just being overbearing regardless of their religion. That's just what I've experienced. I've met some pretty jerk Assembly of God people and some awesome Catholics and JWs. This inactive family in the ghetto was so much cooler to us than the #2 counselor in the bishopric who lived in a very nice apartment near us.
My dad's family isn't religious at all. Most of then are way cool. Some are insincere weirdos. Most of my moms family is active LDS. Most are way cool. Some are arrogant self righteous blow hards.
People are people. How much the religion influences them I don't know. And the overbearingness of Mormon parents? I doubt it's any more overbearing than any other group. There are so many Mormons who let their kids do whatever they want. Don't believe me? Work in a restaurant. Still don't believe me? Visit UVU/SUU/UTAH ST/UTAH/BYU. Or serve a mission. Still don't believe me? Visit wolverine crossing or Belmont.
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gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Well I grew up in a neighborhood that really did not have a vast majority of kids be active LDS. I grew up playing with kids from my neighborhood as much as other Mormon kids. So that was not a problem for me.
Beantown
Well-Known Member
That is pretty lame of your parents but it sounds like you are crying about it way more than you should. This is common in almost every family. Non-religious or religious. If you make a choice they don't agree with and you are over 18 they can cut you off financially without a second thought.
And to be honest it should be that way. If my kids drop out of college no way in hell am I helping them with cars, phones or rent. I'm not going to finance my kids dumb decisions. You chose a different path than your parents wanted so they cut you off financially. Boo hoo...... that happens everyday. Its their money and their choice.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
I think dropping out of college is a bit different than choosing a different path of spiritual enlightenment. You inferring that your kids' acts of not following your preference of faith, as 'dumb' is narrow-minded.
And when you say that it's super common (which it really isn't) I think that makes things even more problematic.
You're compromising a kids future and education-- at a time where stress levels are inordinately high, and where susceptibility to mental illnesses among males will never be higher. If parents putting their kids through this is something that is commonplace, then maybe we should deeply question ourselves as parents altogether.
Beantown
Well-Known Member
When did I say I would cut my kids off if they didn't go on a mission?
fgcamel
Well-Known Member
Oh, so we are stereotyping stereotypes now. fantastic.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
I never said that you said that.
Re-read my post. When you equate cutting off funding your kids due to religious reasons-- with parents cutting off funding when kids drop out, you infer that the two occurrences are mutually acceptable, and not different from the other. I made no assertions on your parenting specifically
Beantown
Well-Known Member
My point was a parent can cut off a kid for whatever reason they want and should not be judged for it. Some parents stop helping kids financially after 18 anyways. It's the parents money and its their choice to help their adult child financially however they see fit.....or not at all.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
That's ********. So if my dad wants me to go to his alma-mater, and threatens me with funding if I don't go, then he can't be judged? If my parents want me to play football in high school, and use my funding as incentive, they shouldn't be judged?
If my father is a incestual pedophiliac, and says that I'll only get money for college if I 'obey' him, then he shouldn't be judged?
Absolute horse-manure.
Beantown
Well-Known Member
You're an idiot.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
It's honestly thought-processes like these that scare me for the future of our children. Your kids aren't a ****ing commodity. They're not an extension of things that you should try to control.
They're you're ****ing kids. And parents who have this loose, my-way-or-get-the-****-out-of-my-face approach are typically parents who ironically demand less respect from their kids. No one likes a pushover-- but no one is impressed by an idealistic jackass either.
Not pointing fingers Bean, it's just an issue that I've seen lots of. You seem like a good father, and you have adorable kids that I know you love
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Interesting take. Explain.