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Gobert...

framer said:
Screw that. I'm not suggesting an SEC monitored financial investment, this is the %$%$%'n NBA. Hype your players, go all the way, that is how this thing works! That is where the fun is! #1 fans don't tamper down excitement, they grow it. I'm not interested in sitting on my hands afraid to be excited because "forbearance. . ." If you are afraid that some negative nancy on this board will later criticize you because Gobert didn't pan out like you said he would, relax. They are going to gripe about something no matter what happens. What you actually say has no bearing on it whatsoever, the stick up their butt is pretty much permanent. Release yourself to the hype, it is worth it!

Here is an honest question. Gobert, as we know him now, is redrafted both in his actual draft and the last one. Where does he go? C'mon, release the Kraken!
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I like this post
 
framer said:
He is already arguably the best rim protector in the NBA, not just elite, but el numbero uno. That is frankly amazing in only his second year. You have to start that (eventually) and shuffle all future plans around featuring that. For all of the hype (some of it deserved) around the Greek Freak, he doesn't change the game every time he checks in. Gobert does. Once he gets regular minutes he is going to be a finalist for DPOY every season. If and when Kanter improves enough to prove he is a great starter, it will be Favors he supplants, not Gobert. If Gobert develops a 10-15 foot jumpshot he will be a 20 million a year player with his current development path in other areas, and the kind of player that absolutely wins championships.

We don't hype Gobert NEARLY enough. You want your three stars to compete? you got Hayward, Gobert, and Exum. Everybody else is frosting. Fortunately, Gobert and Exum are really young and raw so we may be able to add another great piece in the draft this year, but our bottom feeding days will be over after this year. And we will have a good 7 to 8 years open on our window if we keep those three.
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First post so yay !!

Anyway I think a few things are becoming quite clear regarding Gobert :
- He is becoming a defensive stud and barring catastrophic injuries he is going to be a defensive starting 5 for quite some time in the league. Just his defense due to the combination of size and very solid speed is great.
- He is showing to be a hard worker with steady improvements in key markers such as FT% going up (49 to 65), turnover rate going down (23.8 to 17.7) and Assist percentage going up (2.4 to 5.4). In itself none of the values this season are great, but the trend is solid and shows efficient progress and effort. These are fantastic indications.
- He is handling regular solid PT (15/20mns a night) well, not appearing particularly winded, ie getting his feet under him and staying active. This bodes well regarding his physical stamina and ability to play more as season progresses. These are again key markers for young giants like him.

All those indications are great., I don't need to go back to his actual rebounding and blocking numbers per 36.

Now regarding his offense I think we shouldn't get carried away, no need to even think about him shooting the ball. The next step for him isn't the jumpshot, it's a reliable hook shot. Once he can get that reliable hook shot, probably from the left side with his right hand to begin with, than he already has one go to move other than putback dunks and cuts to the basket and he becomes an option for inside/outside play, where you can start having the second unit running a 4/1 set where they dump him the ball and fan out to the 3pt line. Ideally you would want him to be able to get that reliable hookshot going over both shoulders within the next 2 years. At which point he is already a structural problem for the opposing team's defense because of his length, meaning the have to double him in the post, meaning it opens up the game.

My perspective though is that he really is a frickin diamond. big and fast, hard worker and playing within himself without being too tentative. This is a killer combination. If he stays healthy, he is the a starting 5 in the league by midseason, and the trajectory is only going up from there.
 
veji1 said:
First post so yay !!

Anyway I think a few things are becoming quite clear regarding Gobert :
- He is becoming a defensive stud and barring catastrophic injuries he is going to be a defensive starting 5 for quite some time in the league. Just his defense due to the combination of size and very solid speed is great.
- He is showing to be a hard worker with steady improvements in key markers such as FT% going up (49 to 65), turnover rate going down (23.8 to 17.7) and Assist percentage going up (2.4 to 5.4). In itself none of the values this season are great, but the trend is solid and shows efficient progress and effort. These are fantastic indications.
- He is handling regular solid PT (15/20mns a night) well, not appearing particularly winded, ie getting his feet under him and staying active. This bodes well regarding his physical stamina and ability to play more as season progresses. These are again key markers for young giants like him.

All those indications are great., I don't need to go back to his actual rebounding and blocking numbers per 36.

Now regarding his offense I think we shouldn't get carried away, no need to even think about him shooting the ball. The next step for him isn't the jumpshot, it's a reliable hook shot. Once he can get that reliable hook shot, probably from the left side with his right hand to begin with, than he already has one go to move other than putback dunks and cuts to the basket and he becomes an option for inside/outside play, where you can start having the second unit running a 4/1 set where they dump him the ball and fan out to the 3pt line. Ideally you would want him to be able to get that reliable hookshot going over both shoulders within the next 2 years. At which point he is already a structural problem for the opposing team's defense because of his length, meaning the have to double him in the post, meaning it opens up the game.

My perspective though is that he really is a frickin diamond. big and fast, hard worker and playing within himself without being too tentative. This is a killer combination. If he stays healthy, he is the a starting 5 in the league by midseason, and the trajectory is only going up from there.
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Lots of good stuff in there
 
LazyD said:
If his floor was Deandre Jordan, doesn't that mean he'd have to be as good as Deandre Jordan is right now?

Deandre Jordan is one big mother****er. Not as long as Gobert, but much stronger.

Both suck at offense, so there's that.
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Sophomore Gobert is better in almost every statistical category than end of year sophomore Deandre, and he is accelerating. I suspect that by the end of the year Sophomore Gobert will be significantly better in every category. . .
 
Also, Rudy has cut his fouls from 4.7 per 36 last year to 4.0 this year. For him to be able to stay out of foul trouble while playing big and aggressive like he does is also something he needs mad props for.
 
As long as Rudy stays healthy he will be great. His physical attributes are amazing but what may set him apart is his mindset. He wants to be great, he has confidence, and is very self aware. I don't think he needs a jumper personally. He needs to work on catching and finishing and a couple small post moves.

As far as the deandre comp goes... Jordan didn't have a significant effect defensively until doc arrived... Rudy already does. Jordan can't finish close games because he is awful at free throw shooting. Jordan is much more athletic and strong and a great finisher. I'd say its fair to say that Rudy will be as useful or more useful than jordan is very soon.
 
Jamezz said:
This brings up an interesting question. What gives us a better chance of winning games, better D and worse O with Gobert or better O and worse D with Kanter? I go with the former.
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Blocks equals good defense?

We are better defense with Gobert than Kanter because Kanter does not get blocks? This is news to me but clearly does not pass the eyeball test of any Jazz fan. Jazz are better on both sides if court with Kanter, and he sucks. Tells you how bad center problem is in Utah.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Which is scary on the contractual side of things. Rumor is LA will be giving Jordan a max before he hits FA.

https://fansided.com/2014/10/14/los-angeles-clippers-likely-give-deandre-jordan-maximum-contract/
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Yep, centers with size that play superb defense get paid. Centers that do this and play decent offense are just so rare that they will always receive Max offers. Now, what I don't know does the fact that Rudy was drafted so late factor into the maximum he can be paid on his next contract? How much different would a max offer for Exum be than a max offer for Gobert? Are there any differences due to current payscale?
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];952729 said:
Blocks equals good defense?

We are better defense with Gobert than Kanter because Kanter does not get blocks? This is news to me but clearly does not pass the eyeball test of any Jazz fan. Jazz are better on both sides if court with Kanter, and he sucks. Tells you how bad center problem is in Utah.
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I think the ideal thing would be to keep Gobert hungry and wait to make him the starter until there is about 15 games left in the season. Those 15 games are enough that we can have a solid glimpse of what he could be in 23-30 minutes a night (at that point in his career) and also not so many games that if he stinks, his confidence will be destroyed.

It's just right to me and if he does well (say as well as he's shown us in 16 minutes per night recently), it could really get him motivated for another great off-season, and we could have a legitimate starter by October of next year.
 
framer said:
Sophomore Gobert is better in almost every statistical category than end of year sophomore Deandre, and he is accelerating. I suspect that by the end of the year Sophomore Gobert will be significantly better in every category. . .
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Okay. Thanks for clarifying. That is not how your original post reads at all.
 
framer said:
Yep, centers with size that play superb defense get paid. Centers that do this and play decent offense are just so rare that they will always receive Max offers. Now, what I don't know does the fact that Rudy was drafted so late factor into the maximum he can be paid on his next contract? How much different would a max offer for Exum be than a max offer for Gobert? Are there any differences due to current payscale?
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No, zero differences. Exum's would be a little higher only because the salary cap will be higher a year later.
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];952729 said:
Blocks equals good defense?

We are better defense with Gobert than Kanter because Kanter does not get blocks? This is news to me but clearly does not pass the eyeball test of any Jazz fan. Jazz are better on both sides if court with Kanter, and he sucks. Tells you how bad center problem is in Utah.
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I know your trolling, but this is terrible even for a troll post.
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];952729 said:
Blocks equals good defense?

We are better defense with Gobert than Kanter because Kanter does not get blocks? This is news to me but clearly does not pass the eyeball test of any Jazz fan. Jazz are better on both sides if court with Kanter, and he sucks. Tells you how bad center problem is in Utah.
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Real Plus Minus is Back... Go ahead and check out where Gobert and Kanter land. Its not good for Kanter... you'll need to scroll down to the bottom of the page. https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/9
 
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