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Roe v. Wade is going down

Dr Kevin Kruse did a thread a few years ago on Sanger that most likely refutes the garbage that Al is regurgitating from his RW handlers. Im Not unblocking him or reading his posts. It’s a waste of time arguing with someone who so often lies. It’s sad how they keep recycling the same talking pts, as if the rest of us are as dumb as they are.

This thread I’ve bookmarked for a few years and destroys most of the disinformation the right spews about race and abortion.


View: https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1056965284110704640?s=21&t=rRbAivXVFf8e2g1pSJTvAw



View: https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1056965316180406272?s=21&t=rRbAivXVFf8e2g1pSJTvAw
 
www.npr.org

Fact Check: Was Planned Parenthood Started To 'Control' The Black Population?

"I know who Margaret Sanger is, and I know that she believed in eugenics, and that she was not particularly enamored with black people," candidate Ben Carson said of the organization's founder.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

I tend to agree that Sanger wasn't directly trying to get rid of blacks or minorities, but she clearly thought poor uneducated people were inferior and should have fewer children to create a better race of people. It was a different time, but some very scary was of thinking which led to mass forced sterilization for many, including may native americans. Sanger weas anti-Nazi, but some of her thoughts of creating a superior race by weeding out the inferior babies through abortion is simply awful.

The problem is the GOP wants to stop people from aborting their children, but also have no care to help these people support their children or bring them out of endless cycles of poverty.

Regardless of the status of abortion rights, we need to end the cycle of the poor and uneducated in this country, and no, that does not mean we just throw money at the "problem". It means actually planning to course correct systemic issues. Put a system in place where good education and opportunity is available for all using some carrot and some stick. Incentives for parents to get their kids to graduate from high school AND college or a trade school through tax credits for low income families. Tie higher minimum wage for those with a diploma. Increase teacher pay for those teachers that are actually putting in the time and making a difference and trim that fat for the teachers that do nothing. There is some low-hanging fruit opportunities here, and if done right, the additional income attributed to people getting better opportunities will increase the tax base.

Not a simple thing to do, but I'd rather focus on that as a people and fix our country vs. the amount of overseas spending we do. Help our people first.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
The problem is the GOP wants to stop people from aborting their children, but also have no care to help these people support their children or bring them out of endless cycles of poverty.
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Which shows, at the very least, that they don't have carefully thought-out policies, since the best way to reduce abortions would be to get people out of poverty and make birth control easily available.
 
Best of luck to the nation we know as the United States. It’s going to need it.

www.theguardian.com

Divided States of America: Roe v Wade is ‘precursor to larger struggles’

The demise of the 1973 ruling could drive the biggest wedge yet between what appears to be two irreconcilable nations
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Liberal states would become sanctuaries for women seeking abortions and saturated with providers; conservative states would turn into deserts that ban the procedure and criminalise doctors who provide it. Some wonder if the country’s social fabric, frayed by four years of Donald Trump’s presidency, can survive.

“The death of Roe is going to tear America apart,” ran the headline of a New York Times column by Michelle Goldberg, which concluded that “the death of Roe will intensify our national animus, turning red states and blue into mutually hostile legal territories. You think we hate each other now? Just wait until the new round of lawsuits start.”

Simon Schama, a historian, tweeted: “When Roe vs Wade is overturned it will be time to find a different name for this country.”

……
Fareed Zakaria, an author and broadcaster, warned in the Washington Post: “You cannot really understand America anymore by looking at averages. It has become two countries. One is urban, more educated, multiracial, secular and largely left of center. The other is rural, less educated, religious, white and largely right of center.”

Blue America would fit comfortably with northern European Protestant countries, Zakaria said, while red America’s cultural values make it closer to Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.

“For the country’s political future, the central question is now this: can these two Americas find a way to live, work, cooperate with and tolerate one another? If not, the abortion battle may be the precursor to even larger struggles.”
 
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The Thriller said:
Pretty obvious which side of the political aisle these leaks are coming from…
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I don't know about the subsequent leaks you are correct that it is pretty obvious where the original leak to Politico came from. Her name is Elizabeth Deutsch and she is a law clerk for the retiring Justice Breyer. She got that job after working for the ACLU's Reproductive Freedom Project.

Liz.jpg


She's also published Op/Ed pieces in the NY Times that of course centered on reproductive rights.

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | No Contraception? No Equality (Published 2016)

The Supreme Court should not abridge women’s right to health care.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

While there are lots of abortion-obsessed law clerks who had access to the Alito opinion, there is only one abortion-obsessed law clerk whose husband is close personal friends with Politico reporter Josh Gerstein who first published Alito's draft. Elizabeth Deutsch's husband even used to work for Politico and co-authored pieces with Josh Gerstein.

Once the dam broke, the subsequent leaks could be coming from anywhere including the conservative side of the Supreme Court but there is only a mystery about the first leak among those with highly curated sources of information that keep them shielded from anything outside their echo chamber.
 
LogGrad98 said:
There is evidence that legalizing abortion strongly affected crime rates in the 90's all the way to the mid 2010's, largely due to the factors you mentioned here.
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The "factors mentioned here" are the abortion of black and brown babies. To be clear, you are saying that the abortion of black and brown babies lowers crime rates. LogGrad98=DutchJazzer?

As far as the Freakonomics claim, there is a reason all your articles in support have the exact same source. The claim was good for selling a lot of books but is total garbage that has been debunked hundreds of times including once by the Federal Reserve. I'll let you pick the sources but google "freakonomics wrong about abortion" and it should lead you to more than a dozen academic studies detailing the statistical sleight of hand. In reality, it was the tough-on-crime era with stop-and-frisk, 'broken windows policing', etc. that caused the drop in crime rates. It certainly was not that black and brown babies grow up to be criminals and so aborting them lowers the crime rate.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
The "factors mentioned here" are the abortion of black and brown babies. To be clear, you are saying that the abortion of black and brown babies lowers crime rates. LogGrad98=DutchJazzer?

As far as the Freakonomics claim, there is a reason all your articles in support have the exact same source. The claim was good for selling a lot of books but is total garbage that has been debunked hundreds of times including once by the Federal Reserve. I'll let you pick the sources but google "freakonomics wrong about abortion" and it should lead you to more than a dozen academic studies detailing the statistical sleight of hand. In reality, it was the tough-on-crime era with stop-and-frisk, 'broken windows policing', etc. that caused the drop in crime rates. It certainly was not that black and brown babies grow up to be criminals and so aborting them lowers the crime rate.
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Did you read anything I posted?

What am I saying, of course not.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
The "factors mentioned here" are the abortion of black and brown babies. To be clear, you are saying that the abortion of black and brown babies lowers crime rates. LogGrad98=DutchJazzer?
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White fetuses, as well. Male fetuses in general.

Al-O-Meter said:
In reality, it was the tough-on-crime era with stop-and-frisk, 'broken windows policing', etc. that caused the drop in crime rates.
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If so, then why did the drop persist after said policies were reversed.

Al-O-Meter said:
It certainly was not that black and brown babies grow up to be criminals and so aborting them lowers the crime rate.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

There are many factors. The baby boom created a huge surge in young men for about three decades. Leaded gasoline poisoned minds. Etc. Abortions probably played a part, as fewer young men means less crime.
 
I think it is more appropriate to state that when we have fewer citizens in poverty, crime rates go down. Abortion may have caused a decline, but that is a poor and limited solution to a bigger problem.


One Brow said:
White fetuses, as well. Male fetuses in general.


If so, then why did the drop persist after said policies were reversed.


Agreed.

There are many factors. The baby boom created a huge surge in young men for about three decades. Leaded gasoline poisoned minds. Etc. Abortions probably played a part, as fewer young men means less crime.
Click to expand...
 
TheGoldStandard said:
I think it is more appropriate to state that when we have fewer citizens in poverty, crime rates go down. Abortion may have caused a decline, but that is a poor and limited solution to a bigger problem.
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Yes if you get into the meat of the study it was showing that the correlation was that abortions happen disproportionately in lower income areas with lower income families, which then skews disproportionately toward minorities since they are more likely to be disadvantaged.

And I don't think anyone views it as a solution. It is just showing a correlation.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yes if you get into the meat of the study it was showing that the correlation was that abortions happen disproportionately in lower income areas with lower income families, which then skews disproportionately toward minorities since they are more likely to be disadvantaged.

And I don't think anyone views it as a solution. It is just showing a correlation.
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Sanger and eugenists see it as a solution.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
In reality, it was the tough-on-crime era with stop-and-frisk, 'broken windows policing', etc. that caused the drop in crime rates.
Click to expand...
A few links on "broken windows" policing:
www.pbs.org

The Problem with ‘Broken Windows’ Policing

In cities where Broken Windows has taken root, there’s little evidence that it's worked as intended. Newark, N.J. is one example.
www.pbs.org


View: https://www.npr.org/2016/11/01/500104506/broken-windows-policing-and-the-origins-of-stop-and-frisk-and-how-it-went-wrong


news.northeastern.edu

Northeastern University researchers find little evidence for ‘broken windows theory,’ say neighborhood disorder doesn’t cause crime

Northeastern researchers have found that broken windows and other signs of disorder don’t cause people to break the law.
news.northeastern.edu news.northeastern.edu
 
The Thriller said:
This ain’t just about abortion either.

It’s about birth control, voting rights, and the LGBT community. The scotus and GOP have proven to be hostile towards these things.

This ****ing isn’t going to ****ing end with Roe folks. They’re going to target birth control and gay marriage next. Collective bargaining rights and the EPA after that. Interracial marriage and brown v board aren’t too far behind.

If you care about the rights and freedoms we currently enjoy, you should be angry and upset right now. So ****ing angry that you vote every single Republican out of office this fall with democrats. And keep voting them out until they learn to leave these things alone.

Keep the House in Democratic hands and give them a few more Democratic senators so they can codify abortion, gay marriage etc. change the makeup of the Supreme Court or hell, change the structure of it. Why don’t we have 21 judges serving 10 year terms? Any given case might get a random 7 or 15 judge case. Why have we stopped imagining a better structure? Why do we settle for a 6-3 Supreme Court full of ideologues where we know the outcome of every case before they’re even debated?
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If you don’t think red states aren’t going to immediately move to shred LGBT rights as soon as this Supreme Court kills Obergefell, then I have beach front property to sell ya.


View: https://twitter.com/mjgerson/status/1538519408666091520?s=21&t=f_LqlWiJhqjiTkiRrcyKLA



View: https://twitter.com/kathleen_belew/status/1536517566146850816?s=21&t=f_LqlWiJhqjiTkiRrcyKLA


www.businessinsider.com

Texas GOP's new platform calls homosexuality 'abnormal' and includes explicitly anti-LGBTQ ideology

The Republican Party of Texas adopted a platform that includes explicitly anti-LGBTQ ideology at its biennial convention on Saturday.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
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Rubashov said:
Reproductive rights are just another way for men to exert power and control over women. If you own nothing in life you own your own body and what goes in and out of it. I suppose if women wanted that sort of freedom they should have been born as men yeah? There is nothing to celebrate in this, it is a defeat for men and women all over your country.
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Yup.
 
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