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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

The Thriller said:
I think Ukraine is in trouble. Here’s why:

1. They’re running out of ammo now. We’re talking about an election that’s 10 months away.
2. Republicans will most likely recapture the senate. The map tough and Dems are already down 1 with Manchin retiring. So even if Dems hold the White House and recapture the House, the senate can obstruct and kill any Ukrainian aid. Republicans can withhold aid for as long as they stay in power. Power is the only thing that animates them.

There was a time when both parties would’ve worked together on this. But… sadly… that no longer happens. It’s all about politics, 24/7. How can my team win if I’m a Republican. It’s asymmetrical warfare.
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There are many European countries that will continue to give Ukraine aid.

After November, if you read my post that you are responding to, I think there will be less reason to withhold aid, as the reason they are doing it now is to appease Trump and deny Biden a win. Helping Ukraine is helping the U.S.. After the election, after Trump is defeated again and the Republican party needs to move on they will have few reasons to deny aid.

The reason they are withholding aid is because that's good for Trump. Once the Trump stank is lifted there is little incentive, other than some of them who I think are actually Russian compromised agents, to keep helping Russia.
 
Sardines said:
There are many European countries that will continue to give Ukraine aid.

After November, if you read my post that you are responding to, I think there will be less reason to withhold aid, as the reason they are doing it now is to appease Trump and deny Biden a win. Helping Ukraine is helping the U.S.. After the election, after Trump is defeated again and the Republican party needs to move on they will have few reasons to deny aid.

The reason they are withholding aid is because that's good for Trump. Once the Trump stank is lifted there is little incentive, other than some of them who I think are actually Russian compromised agents, to keep helping Russia.
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I read your post. I disagreed with it. Trump’s stench won’t lift as the incentives for the party to remain fascist will remain; a base living in an alt reality, a propaganda apparatus dependent on radicalizing viewers, and politicians scared to deal the of their own base. Trump will merely lie after he loses this year, the base will believe him, and this cycle will repeat itself.

Fascism in America didn’t start and certainly doesn’t end with Trump. We’ve seen the continued self-radicalization of the GOP since at least the tea party in 2009. That’s not going to change with a Trump defeat in 2024. Especially given how entrenched conservative disinformation and propaganda have become in our media and primary social media platforms.

The pressure to obstruct the Dems or face an extremist from the right flank will just continue into 2025 and 2026, just as we’ve seen since 2010.
 
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The Thriller said:
I read your post. I disagreed with it. Trump’s stench won’t lift as the incentives for the party to remain fascist will remain; a base living in an alt reality, a propaganda apparatus dependent on radicalizing viewers, and politicians scared to deal the of their own base. Trump will merely lie after he loses this year, the base will believe him, and this cycle will repeat itself.

Fascism in America didn’t start and certainly doesn’t end with Trump. We’ve seen the continued self-radicalization of the GOP since at least the tea party in 2009. That’s not going to change with a Trump defeat in 2024. Especially given how entrenched conservative disinformation and propaganda have become in our media and primary social media platforms.

The pressure to obstruct the Dems or face an extremist from the right flank will just continue into 2025 and 2026, just as we’ve seen since 2010.
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The motivation to deny Ukraine aid is not fascism, it's Trump's campaign.
 
Sardines said:
The motivation to deny Ukraine aid is not fascism, it's Trump's campaign.
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It’s a desire to play to the base to prevent a primary. Yes, influenced by Trump. Accelerated by him. But easily could have happened regardless if Trump were still alive. Republicans have obstructed Democrats, even if it meant turning the backs on their own principles, since 2010.

Until this incentive to play to the base is changed, this endless cycle won’t end.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Or rephrased: Until politicians stop feeling compelled to represent the will of their constituents ...

I don't disagree that democracy is dumb but I still feel like I'm being punk'd.
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So you believe that Republican voters are cheering for Russia and Putin and want Russia and Putin to destroy Ukraine?

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I have no idea what you are talking about.
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We are talking about republican congresspersons not allowing aid for Ukraine. You are saying that is just the congresspersons representing the will of their constituents.

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 
fishonjazz said:
We are talking about republican congresspersons not allowing aid for Ukraine. You are saying that is just the congresspersons representing the will of their constituents.
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My comment was directed specifically at The Thriller's 30,000 foot view of the problem in Washington DC, which is democracy. It isn't the first comment he's made in that direction and I don't think he is wrong there but it is amusing given his earlier concerns over losing our democracy.

Specifically to your question, yes it is the Senators representing the will of their constituents. I think you are deliberately mischaracterizing the sentiment as being pro-Putin or pro-Russia because no Senator is pushing aid for Russia or even a relaxing of sanctions against Russia. There is no large segment of the American population that is pro-Putin, although disturbingly there are some because I've met one, but they're pretty rare. There is an increasing movement of people who are isolationist or at least want some sort of plan with goals that when achieved will mark a completion. The sentiment of "We're there as long as it takes" isn't sitting well with many who are asking "as long as it takes do to what?" or "until who is satisfied?". Americans who believe along those lines are increasing and Senators are duly representing that.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Specifically to your question, yes it is the Senators representing the will of their constituents. I think you are deliberately mischaracterizing the sentiment as being pro-Putin or pro-Russia because no Senator is pushing aid for Russia or even a relaxing of sanctions against Russia. There is no large segment of the American population that is pro-Putin, although disturbingly there are some because I've met one, but they're pretty rare. There is an increasing movement of people who are isolationist or at least want some sort of plan with goals that when achieved will mark a completion. The sentiment of "We're there as long as it takes" isn't sitting well with many who are asking "as long as it takes do to what?" or "until who is satisfied?". Americans who believe along those lines are increasing and Senators are duly representing that.
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Good response. you are right.
Maybe the voters simply dont understand that not helping ukraine = helping russia and putin. They could actually be that dumb i guess.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
My comment was directed specifically at The Thriller's 30,000 foot view of the problem in Washington DC, which is democracy. It isn't the first comment he's made in that direction and I don't think he is wrong there but it is amusing given his earlier concerns over losing our democracy.

Specifically to your question, yes it is the Senators representing the will of their constituents. I think you are deliberately mischaracterizing the sentiment as being pro-Putin or pro-Russia because no Senator is pushing aid for Russia or even a relaxing of sanctions against Russia. There is no large segment of the American population that is pro-Putin, although disturbingly there are some because I've met one, but they're pretty rare. There is an increasing movement of people who are isolationist or at least want some sort of plan with goals that when achieved will mark a completion. The sentiment of "We're there as long as it takes" isn't sitting well with many who are asking "as long as it takes do to what?" or "until who is satisfied?". Americans who believe along those lines are increasing and Senators are duly representing that.
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Don't forget these are the exact same Republicans who were all about the sham Iraq war. They have no ability to weigh decisions based on their own analysis, they just side with and regurgitate whatever Fox News tells them. At the moment they're not worried about what's right or best for the USA, they're doing what the orange rapist tells them and trying to own the libs.
 
str8line said:
Don't forget these are the exact same Republicans who were all about the sham Iraq war. They have no ability to weigh decisions based on their own analysis, they just side with and regurgitate whatever Fox News tells them. At the moment they're not worried about what's right or best for the USA, they're doing what the orange rapist tells them and trying to own the libs.
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This is a really good post.

Which is also why I don’t see much changing even if Trump choked on the cheeseburger from heaven today. There’s too much money for Fox News to make by continuing the same outrage propaganda they’ve served for years. For as long as I can remember, they’ve demonized educators, immigrants, women, blacks, the types of mustard Democrats use, and spread disinformation.

If Trump choked on the cheeseburger, another demagogue would fill his place. They might not be as effective as he is as far as leading a cult. But Fox News would still be telling millions of Americans everyday to distrust institutions, love whatever leader had an R by their name, election outcomes, and hate Democrats. Which is why I don’t see much if anything changing as far as immigration or Ukraine aid in 2025 after Biden is reelected. Fox News addicts have been conditioned to hate Ukraine and love Putin. They hate Central Americans and will continue to obstruct any solution. The outrage is just too profitable.

It’s too profitable for Fox, cuz it keeps viewers glued to the tv set.
It’s too profitable for Repubs, cuz they have a never ending issue to campaign on.
It’s too profitable for the base, cuz they can use immigration or foreign aid as excuses to primary principled republicans who fear a primary.
 
str8line said:
Don't forget these are the exact same Republicans who were all about the sham Iraq war.
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That is simply ahistorical nonsense. There has been a significant amount of turnover in the past 20 years and if there was a face for that movement it would be Liz Cheney whose father was the architect of the Iraq War. Liz Cheney isn't winning any popularity contests on the right. The neocons are not in control of the Republican party.

Fox News too does not have the power they once had. Many on the conservative side split with them when they deplatformed Tucker Carlson. As much as you seem to want to relive the good old days, 2024 is a different time.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
That is simply ahistorical nonsense. There has been a significant amount of turnover in the past 20 years and if there was a face for that movement it would be Liz Cheney whose father was the architect of the Iraq War. Liz Cheney isn't winning any popularity contests on the right. The neocons are not in control of the Republican party.

Fox News too does not have the power they once had. Many on the conservative side split with them when they deplatformed Tucker Carlson. As much as you seem to want to relive the good old days, 2024 is a different time.
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I was referring to the base not Congress, as indicated by the Fox News reference. In referrence to your comment that the base wants to know where the war ends. But they don't. I can see where I could have been more clear though.
 
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Some different interesting footage hit the net in the past 24 hours. This time it was a Sea Baby drone swarm taking down the Ivanovets, a medium sized Russian ship.

For those unfamiliar with them, this is a Sea Baby:
sb_0000.jpg


...and an older video with a better look at it in daylight:


The drones are about 16 feet long and packed with an anti-ship explosive warhead. They have thermal vision to see ships in total darkness. Ukraine received some intelligence about where the ship was going to be and they unleashed 6 or 8 of these things.

 
Al-O-Meter said:
My comment was directed specifically at The Thriller's 30,000 foot view of the problem in Washington DC, which is democracy. It isn't the first comment he's made in that direction and I don't think he is wrong there but it is amusing given his earlier concerns over losing our democracy.

Specifically to your question, yes it is the Senators representing the will of their constituents. I think you are deliberately mischaracterizing the sentiment as being pro-Putin or pro-Russia because no Senator is pushing aid for Russia or even a relaxing of sanctions against Russia. There is no large segment of the American population that is pro-Putin, although disturbingly there are some because I've met one, but they're pretty rare. There is an increasing movement of people who are isolationist or at least want some sort of plan with goals that when achieved will mark a completion. The sentiment of "We're there as long as it takes" isn't sitting well with many who are asking "as long as it takes do to what?" or "until who is satisfied?". Americans who believe along those lines are increasing and Senators are duly representing that.
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Yes, our national security should be put into the hands of the many and all their opinions. That's what the House is doing with the purse. Populism all around folks! Who do we bomb next, Doug?

This is politics, not defending our country, for the GOP. Its all they got now. Weakening the US, emboldening Russia to score points on the only issue Biden hasn't addressed yet. The border. The GOP is terrified he'll solve the only problem they have left to run on. Cowards, the lot.
 
The anti war push isn't about helping Putin it is about holding folks accountable. I think Americans are finally realizing that hey we spent how many American lives and how much money on Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Syria, Libya etc and for what? Are those places better now? Is democracy safe in Afghanistan now? Did we spread enough bombs, I mean democracy? We spent billions if not trillions of dollars on these wars with no accountability. We did create a state of the art torture program which is nice, and we succeeded in killing a bunch of American soldiers so there's that...

If we keep allowing these people to write blank checks during war they will continue to find wars to fund, its pretty simple. We spent enough money to eradicate homelessness in the US 5 times over in Ukraine so far, but we don't know how the money is being spent. Are we getting a state of the art torture program? Are we getting state of the art bio weapons facilities? We don't know, nobody in congress wants us to know, and nobody is accountable.... That's the way they like it in Washington- that's the way its been done for decades. Waste, fraud, and abuse is the rule, not the exception.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835dtc8GgYs
 
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