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2020 NBA trade deadline discussion

Handlogten's Heros said:
I’d be fine giving up more firsts if they are protected. Losing firsts is huge if you need to rebuild... I don’t see that in our 5 year plan... so I’m game to sell off a pick if we have one available.

I guess what I’m saying about this year is that swapping out Niang or Bradley’s minutes really isn’t going to make a major difference... those guys are fine. Bertans is good/great and a definite upgrade... if we play the Lakers and we are both healthy is that difference going to swing the series? What about the Clips? To beat those guys I think we need a top tier talent improvement or better health luck... which is why I’ve kinda pushed on the CP for Conley swap idea. It would likely push us into the tax the last year of his contract... like 30M worth buying it’s be a one year blip. If his 35-37 age years are similar to Stockton or Nash then I think it makes us a legit contender. I’m not convinced Conley does.
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You do it looking at next year when you also have Favors. Anthony Davis goes to Chicago or somewhere else. The. You just have to deal with Kawhi and I think we got him.
 
Jack Strop said:
I think you are right, although I'm not sure Ed has any value. Jazz may need to buy him out. He's guaranteed for next year, right?

I think the major move could come 1 yr from now. If Conley still doesn't "fit," he has a big expiring contract. And the Jazz will have their 1st round pick to include. Jazz will use the MLE in the summer to shore up the roster.
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The Jazz will not have a 1st to trade until the 1st owed to Memphis conveys. That is not likely to occur until 2022, although it is protected in varying degrees through 2024. And because the Stepien Rule prevents teams from trading picks in consecutive years, they can’t even trade the pick if it does not convey except draft-night scenarios where they don’t technically trade the pick. So for the purposes of a mid-season trade, we are back to the beginning for the millionth time: the Jazz essentially don’t have a 1st to trade.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
The Jazz will not have a 1st to trade until the 1st owed to Memphis conveys. That is not likely to occur until 2022, although it is protected in varying degrees through 2025. And because the Stepien Rule prevents teams from trading picks in consecutive years, they can’t even trade the pick if it does not convey except draft-night scenarios where they don’t technically trade the pick. So for the purposes of a mid-season trade, we are back to the beginning for the millionth time: the Jazz essentially don’t have a 1st to trade.
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It would have to be essentially a “fake” first. So you arrange the protections so it conveys 2 years after the Memphis 1st... turns into two seconds of not conveyed by 2024 or something. It doesn’t have first round pick type value... it does help the opposing team win the press conference because they got a first for their guy.
 
infection said:
You do it looking at next year when you also have Favors. Anthony Davis goes to Chicago or somewhere else. The. You just have to deal with Kawhi and I think we got him.
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AD ain’t going nowhere until LeBron leaves. I think with Conley as a core piece I’m not looking at next year as the big opportunity... I think the landscape changes so much that you kinda need to give yourself the best chance now. I don’t see the player that opens that window this year outside of swapping Conley for CP.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It would have to be essentially a “fake” first. So you arrange the protections so it conveys 2 years after the Memphis 1st... turns into two seconds of not conveyed by 2024 or something. It doesn’t have first round pick type value... it does help the opposing team win the press conference because they got a first for their guy.
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It would be 2026 by the time you could assure that it’s two years past the point of the Memphis pick. Which is a laughable proposition.

If there’s a provision for an IOU that basically dictates a dynamic scenario like you’re suggesting (a protected-1st as soon as we have one that satisfies league rules without regard to year), then that’s something I guess.

Or we could just accept that the Jazz don’t have a 1st to trade.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
AD ain’t going nowhere until LeBron leaves. I think with Conley as a core piece I’m not looking at next year as the big opportunity... I think the landscape changes so much that you kinda need to give yourself the best chance now. I don’t see the player that opens that window this year outside of swapping Conley for CP.
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I’m leaning into the same old Pistons-model dreams we’ve had for years. I think if we upgrade the backup big and add another versatile perimeter defender, then we can push into the next tier without having to add some “top flight” talent.
 
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As of today, it seems that the idea for the bench is to just out-gun the opposition. It’s almost as if we’ve surrendered the idea that we can defend at an above average level. I think with some personnel moves on the margins this can change. The right pieces could stabilize bench defense and, in the right combinations, also help the main 4-man units.

As Locke said yesterday, we’ve rounded back to the same question we had at the beginning of the season: how good can we be on defense with this more offensively minded roster? I think we’re a couple of pieces away from being much better than we currently are.


(Look at the roster that was constructed to start the season. What kind of pieces do you think the FO thought Davis and Exum were? Obviously they were there primarily for defense. As of today, we’ve swapped those pieces for Clarkson and Bradley. That’s a total change in the philosophy and style of two key rotation pieces. I think it’s fair to say that DL-Zanik will look to add back some defense if they can. Moving Davis and parting with some second round picks could be all it takes to get one guy, at least).
 
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I would love CP3 but the reality is his contract doesn’t match up with our timeline seamlessly like Conley’s does. It would be totally worth it to go all in and try to win it all for the next 2 years though. We would be the favorites if we swapped Conley for CP3 plus got a pick or two back. It works straight up also which adds more intrigue to a deal.
 
NAOS said:
As of today, it seems that the idea for the bench is to just out-gun the opposition. It’s almost as if we’ve surrendered the idea that we can defend at an above average level. I think with some personnel moves on the margins this can change. The right pieces could stabilize bench defense and, in the right combinations, also help the main 4-man units.

As Locke said yesterday, we’ve rounded back to the same question we had at the beginning of the season: how good can we be on defense with this more offensively minded roster? I think we’re a couple of pieces away from being much better than we currently are.


(Look at the roster that was constructed to start the season. What kind of pieces do you think the FO thought Davis and Exum were? Obviously they were there primarily for defense. As of today, we’ve swapped those pieces for Clarkson and Bradley. That’s a total change in the philosophy and style of two key rotation pieces. I think it’s fair to say that DL-Zanik will look to add back some defense if they can. Moving Davis and parting with some second round picks could be all it takes to get one guy, at least).
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Hypothetically getting Conley back should push Royce to the second unit and so the bench defense should improve. I think Tony can be effective on defense in time, but right now he fouls too much... and they are soft Rodney Hood/ Trey Lyles fouls that get the other team And 1s.

Locke talked about what happens when you integrate Mike back in with the starters and it kinda has me worried a bit. Swapping Royce for Mike hurts our rebounding and how much better can that unit get offensively. DM, Joe, Bojan is enough scoring/creation and pretty balanced... does that balance go sideways with Mike? Will he be as efficient as those guys? Will the defense slide?

CP is a better defender, rebounder, and can guard bigger players... on offense he's a savant. I think he could anchor second units offensively by himself. The narrative last year about him being washed was unfair... he wasn't healthy then he found his rhythm. D'Antoni ended up ramping his minutes up the prior year in the playoffs and then he pulled his hamstring... his play didn't drop way off... those injuries weren't career threatening. I realize he's small, but the guys that aged well were the high end guys that were also super smart like Nash and Stockton... I could see CP fitting that mold.

The $44M in two years is an issue... but it'd be a one year luxury tax burden and the guy might still be playing at a high level. We don't need 36 minutes a night out of the guy... can keep him on the Stockton 28 minute plan and extend his career. I think he'd fit better than Mike and is a pretty clear upgrade talent wise. He ran lob city for hells sake. The issues are the money and the strong, potentially toxic personality.
 
I know Demar DeRozan doesn't shoot 3s, but I might consider a deal based around Conley for DeRozan. As a 2nd or 3rd option playing on a spaced floor, he might work. He'd at least give the Jazz a little more size and rebounding compared to Conley.

Starting five would then be Mitchell/DeRozan/Ingles/Bogdanovic/Gobert. That's three 20+ ppg scorers on the floor with Ingles and Gobert. DeRozan coming downhill off Gobert screens would be a weapon. He can also pass a bit. That ought to be enough to take out Houston.
 
Catchall said:
I know Demar DeRozan doesn't shoot 3s, but I might consider a deal based around Conley for DeRozan. As a 2nd or 3rd option playing on a spaced floor, he might work. He'd at least give the Jazz a little more size and rebounding compared to Conley.

Starting five would then be Mitchell/DeRozan/Ingles/Bogdanovic/Gobert. That's three 20+ ppg scorers on the floor with Ingles and Gobert. DeRozan coming downhill off Gobert screens would be a weapon. He can also pass a bit. That ought to be enough to take out Houston.
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The Raptors didn't miss him last year, and they don't miss him post-Kawhi. There's a reason: he's not very good at the end of the day. I'd rather keep Conley.
 
Next 10 games should be pretty telling for Phoenix... a place to keep an eye on with Baynes… San Antonio is playing better and creating some separation... Phoenix is struggling and Williams mentioned going away from the Baynes Ayton starting lineup... I'm going to guess they don't bench the #1 pick... Keep playing Niang and Bradley and hopefully boost their trade value... then you might be able to entice Phoenix with a cheap bench option for their expiring when they realize they are going nowhere.
 
Conley has a higher chance of getting traded next season, if he continues to struggle. I don't think it'll happen this season.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Next 10 games should be pretty telling for Phoenix... a place to keep an eye on with Baynes… San Antonio is playing better and creating some separation... Phoenix is struggling and Williams mentioned going away from the Baynes Ayton starting lineup... I'm going to guess they don't bench the #1 pick... Keep playing Niang and Bradley and hopefully boost their trade value... then you might be able to entice Phoenix with a cheap bench option for their expiring when they realize they are going nowhere.
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Reads precisely like a @NAOS post from two weeks ago.
 
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