What's new
By:

2023 NBA Draft Megathread

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ok, now tell me how much Marcus Smart weighs.

I'll wait for it
Click to expand...
Like 225 when he was drafted... Jrue was like 200 lbs similar to Cason. Weight is one factor for sure but a guy that is sturdy like Cason having a low center of gravity can be just as effective in those situations.

If you want to make JHS some amazing defender that's fine. But there are guys with his frame that are *** on defense or just average. I lean on stocks because its measurable and will have less noise than advanced defensive metrics and the eye test.

JHS won't be a better defender than White (just made an all defense team) He's more likely to be adequate like Jamal Murray. Players getting hunted in the playoffs is not the end of the world. If a good defender gets hunted I'm cool living with the results. Boston's defense was good enough to win a title.
 
Cason was regularly guarding 1-3 at the college level. He was typically guarding the other team's best player and often was guarding someone taller than him, so I'm not too worried about him guarding taller players. I'm sure he has some ability to put on a little weight to have a better chance against heavier players, but yeah, I don't see him guarding 4's and 5's like Smart.
 
Stocks is not just an indicator for defense. It's an indicator of general athleticism, IQ, and activity among other things. No indicator is perfect, but simply being 6'6 does not automatically make you a good defender either.

I also hate this idea of reducing NBA playoff defense to switchability. It's the most basic, superficial way to see the game. Yeah, teams hunt switches in playoff basketball. That makes off ball defensive play even more critical as teams work harder to cover for unfavorable matchups. NBA basketball is not five 1v1 matchups, it's 5v5 basketball. Defense is a team concept and switching does not make that any less true and the importance of creating turnovers and making defensive plays off the ball isn't any less important.

Derrick White was also really effective on the playoffs and this is backed up by the numbers. Players shot 7% worse than expected against him in the MIA series. For Tatum and Brown they shot 2% and 3% better than expected. It was Boston's defense that kept them in the series and White was a big part of that, arguably the biggest part of it. But even if you're going to say White was the problem and specifically because of his size. What were the Heat doing? Their backcourt minutes were all Vincent, Strus, Lowry, and Robinson and they were going against double big+physical wings. Coming away from that series and saying White was the problem and specifically for his size is the stretch of a century.
 
KqWIN said:
Stocks is not just an indicator for defense. It's an indicator of general athleticism, IQ, and activity among other things. No indicator is perfect, but simply being 6'6 does not automatically make you a good defender either.

I also hate this idea of reducing NBA playoff defense to switchability. It's the most basic, superficial way to see the game. Yeah, teams hunt switches in playoff basketball. That makes off ball defensive play even more critical as teams work harder to cover for unfavorable matchups. NBA basketball is not five 1v1 matchups, it's 5v5 basketball. Defense is a team concept and switching does not make that any less true and the importance of creating turnovers and making defensive plays off the ball isn't any less important.

Derrick White was also really effective on the playoffs and this is backed up by the numbers. Players shot 7% worse than expected against him in the MIA series. For Tatum and Brown they shot 2% and 3% better than expected. It was Boston's defense that kept them in the series and White was a big part of that, arguably the biggest part of it. But even if you're going to say White was the problem and specifically because of his size. What were the Heat doing? Their backcourt minutes were all Vincent, Strus, Lowry, and Robinson and they were going against double big+physical wings. Coming away from that series and saying White was the problem and specifically for his size is the stretch of a century.
Click to expand...
Yes, if Boston had a better gameplan to exploit Miami's size they could have won. They relied on jacking bad 3s and Miami schemed well.

I'm not saying a smaller defender is death to your team and is an irreparable tragedy, but it's a thing. You can't deny it's not a thing. It's something to consider in the large scheme of things and is certainly a massive positive for JHS.

And JHS is a good defender. If you actually watch him play it's pretty clear so this narrative that is going around here that he is a poor defender is just some **** a lazy person who saw some bad stocks said.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Cason was regularly guarding 1-3 at the college level. He was typically guarding the other team's best player and often was guarding someone taller than him, so I'm not too worried about him guarding taller players. I'm sure he has some ability to put on a little weight to have a better chance against heavier players, but yeah, I don't see him guarding 4's and 5's like Smart.
Click to expand...
I agree... I just don't see him getting hunted deep in the playoffs being an issue. Guy is a ball hawk and I don't think I'd advocate involving him as much as possible.

Its just funny cuz some of the best defenders in the league get lit up by the best offensive players in the league in the playoffs. Is Bridges an *** defender cuz Luka buried him last year? nah.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yes, if Boston had a better gameplan to exploit Miami's size they could have won. They relied on jacking bad 3s and Miami schemed well.

I'm not saying a smaller defender is death to your team and is an irreparable tragedy, but it's a thing. You can't deny it's not a thing. It's something to consider in the large scheme of things and is certainly a massive positive for JHS.

And JHS is a good defender. If you actually watch him play it's pretty clear so this narrative that is going around here that he is a poor defender is just some **** a lazy person who saw some bad stocks said.
Click to expand...

I've watched full games of his, his defense doesn't stand out one way or another. I'm not even saying his defense is a weakness for him, but like I said, stocks is not just an indicator of defense. You will rarely see star players in the NBA with low stocks, and JHS's stocks aren't just low or bad, they are worst in class. Same with with his finishing around the basket and ability to get to the free throw line. These are alarming indicators that he's just not very athletic, and this shows up on film as well. It's hard to ignore things when they are so evident on film + on paper.

Again, I'm not saying this is the perfect end all be all indicator, but to use your own words it's a thing and you can't deny it's a thing. It's something to consider in the large scheme of things and is certainly a massive negative for JHS.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Cason was regularly guarding 1-3 at the college level. He was typically guarding the other team's best player and often was guarding someone taller than him, so I'm not too worried about him guarding taller players. I'm sure he has some ability to put on a little weight to have a better chance against heavier players, but yeah, I don't see him guarding 4's and 5's like Smart.
Click to expand...

It's easy to get caught up in the measurements and testing....always need to remember that what really matters is how good you are at basketball.
 
default said:
JHS would be a very good option in the 12-18 range, but I think there are better options at 9.
Click to expand...
Hopefully there are, but if the top 8 goes how I think it will most likely go, it flattens out a lot and I don't think there is much difference 9-16 or so
 
KqWIN said:
I've watched full games of his, his defense doesn't stand out one way or another. I'm not even saying his defense is a weakness for him, but like I said, stocks is not just an indicator of defense. You will rarely see star players in the NBA with low stocks, and JHS's stocks aren't just low or bad, they are worst in class. Same with with his finishing around the basket and ability to get to the free throw line. These are alarming indicators that he's just not very athletic, and this shows up on film as well. It's hard to ignore things when they are so evident on film + on paper.

Again, I'm not saying this is the perfect end all be all indicator, but to use your own words it's a thing and you can't deny it's a thing. It's something to consider in the large scheme of things and is certainly a massive negative for JHS.
Click to expand...
You also watch GG and can't see his talent so idk if you even have eyeballs for this kind of stuff.
 
And yes, JHS want great at finishing. He has a lot of tools. He might not be explosive, but he has great body control, plays physical, is huge, clearly gas great scoring touch and can change pace. Once he tightens his handle and learns the tricks of finishing for the vertically challenged, things will click.
 
The important stuff for JHS? He has a high level of natural feel for the most important playtype in the NBA and the Jazz have two great bigs to pair him with.
 
Elizah Huge said:
JHS shooting numbers are worse than Wallace and Black.
Click to expand...

I’d still give JHS the shooting edge all things considered, but it’s not by much. Scoring/Shooting is seen as a bigger weakness for Cason/Black just because they are A+ in other areas.

I honestly wonder the conversation would be around Wallace/Black if they were just average or bad on defense but we’re exactly the same on offense. Having defense as your best attribute might just be a little too boring for some people.
 
OMP is rising it seems. Barlowe had him at 20 on his mock draft and said he was told by some scouts/teams that dont be surprised if he goes higher. Measured huge, played well at the combine, tested well athletically, the tape says he's a good defender, and supposedly has an outstanding personality. If HH sees his stocks though he will call him the worst defender he has ever seen.
 
KqWIN said:
I’d still give JHS the shooting edge all things considered, but it’s not by much. Scoring/Shooting is seen as a bigger weakness for Cason/Black just because they are A+ in other areas.

I honestly wonder the conversation would be around Wallace/Black if they were just average or bad on defense but we’re exactly the same on offense. Having defense as your best attribute might just be a little too boring for some people.
Click to expand...

Cason is just kind of meh to me. I think he will be a solid player but don’t see a ton of upside. He seems like a high floor low ceiling type of guy to me. Could be totally off base but that’s what I’m feeling.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
OMP is rising it seems. Barlowe had him at 20 on his mock draft and said he was told by some scouts/teams that dont be surprised if he goes higher. Measured huge, played well at the combine, tested well athletically, the tape says he's a good defender, and supposedly has an outstanding personality. If HH sees his stocks though he will call him the worst defender he has ever seen.
Click to expand...
Everyone is rising... the tape measure, the scale, and eye test are more important than basketball. I'm sure I'm the only one that would look at the measurements and question the stock numbers... or its a legit question you yourself have asked.

With 28 I'm open to just about any prospect. Anyone that wants to reach for this guy in the top 20 is likely passing some better bets.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Cason is just kind of meh to me. I think he will be a solid player but don’t see a ton of upside. He seems like a high floor low ceiling type of guy to me. Could be totally off base but that’s what I’m feeling.
Click to expand...
I'm so on/off with Cason. I think he might just be a bit too small (dont attack me) for his skill-set given his lack of on-ball burst, lack of natural PG feel, lack of handle. Kind of the same thing as Davion Mitchell, but not to that degree.

Then there is the fact that he shot 40/24 from the field on 10.6/4.2 attempts per game while averaging 11.2 ppg in SEC play.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Cason is just kind of meh to me. I think he will be a solid player but don’t see a ton of upside. He seems like a high floor low ceiling type of guy to me. Could be totally off base but that’s what I’m feeling.
Click to expand...

I get the feeling, and I kinda see Cason as the higher floor lower ceiling version of Black myself. Having said that, it's often the guys who are seen as role players who end up being the star players. I think we could be falling into a trap with Cason where it's so easy to see him being a solid player it limits our imagination for him to be a star. When it's not as easy to see a prospect as role player (i.e. GG, JHS, NSJ etc) the imagination and hopium can run wild. Ultimately I think Cason lands somewhere between Melton-DWhite scale, which is still an awesome player, but I try not to undersell his chance to be even better.

This is true for Black as well. It's so easy to see him be that connector type, but I'd caution on pigeonholing him into that. It's seems as though Shai is the most common guys are comparing themselves too this year. Every tall PG/combo guard says they're like Shai just like every smallish combo guard said they were like Mitchell after he broke out. TBH, I think Black has as good of a case to be compared to Shai as anyone. The best thing Shai does is get to the line, and Black really stands out from the rest of the pack here. It's interesting to read the predraft stuff on Shai as well, because many thought he was more of a role player than star.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top