3 way trade for Gobert

[LoPo]

Just read an article suggesting a trade with the pistons

Jazz get: Griffin and Rose
Pistons get: Conley #23 and 2021 2nd rnd pick

That trade may put us into contention if the jazz are really trying to go all in.

Rose
Mitchell
Bogdonavic
Griffin
Gobert

Clarkson
O’Neal
Ingles
(????)


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

I'm on record saying that I like the idea of pursuing Griffin. I think he fits us so, so well if Don is our PG. He's another guy who can handle the ball and initiate offense.

As for this trade, I don't think Rose or the #23 pick are necessary. I would actually contend that we should get an asset back if we trade Conley for Griffin.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't like this particular trade, but I do think trading Rudy is the way to go. I think Rudy is at his absolute best right now. He's at his peak. His value is at an all time high. At 30+, he's going to be sought out on the court even more by elite teams and athletes on those teams. And if he's making $30+, his limitations and drain on the cap will drive Donovan into insanity to the point where he might want out.

Sure, I'd love to trade Conley for better value, but that's going to be so difficult if the cap is flat.

He's at his peak but we don't know how long that can extend. He might be a peak guy over the whole life of the deal. The trades that I think are actually out there might be pretty terrible. I expect DM to be here through most of his next extension, but it might be better for both us and him to move on towards the end of that deal. I think the chance that a guys stays 12-15 years in today's NBA is small.

Rudy isn't untradeable once he signs his extension... assuming it isn't the supermax. If it doesn't work well the next year there will be teams that missed their FA mark and might put in serious assets to get something done.

I also don't think we've done a ton to really adjust and help Rudy be successful. What if we make an adjustment and use some zone defense and it turns out having a rim protector live at the rim becomes really effective? We haven't tried enough around these guys just punt and get rid of one of them. Part of the reason we haven't adjusted is that a lot of the stuff has worked to a good degree. We now need to be a bit more flexible in our approach with an eye towards the postseason.

 

[latin jazz]

Just read an article suggesting a trade with the pistons

Jazz get: Griffin and Rose
Pistons get: Conley #23 and 2021 2nd rnd pick

That trade may put us into contention if the jazz are really trying to go all in.

Rose
Mitchell
Bogdonavic
Griffin
Gobert

Clarkson
O’Neal
Ingles
(????)


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

You forget we already traded for Rose. We waved him. We didn't like him, he didn't like us. Terrible fit for our system.

Griffin is almost done and spends more time injured than on the court. Bad fit four Q's system too.

That trade will put us into the lottery instead of contention

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

the way finals teams have come together the last few years I'm comfortable keeping Rudy and DM and configuring the pieces around them. If we take a conservative approach to the draft and FA then it likely won't be successful. We need to take some chances on young FAs with upside and find some gems in the draft or with undrafted guys.

Miami came together in a weird environment but had some guys really pop... Toronto too. We have as good a chance at finding lightening in a bottle the next few years as you could probably hope for. Trading Rudy might be a measured approach and might make us younger but I don't think pushing the window out gives you a much better chance at title when/if those players develop. We have to get lucky with a couple additions... most teams need a fair amount of luck to win a title.

If it doesn't work then in 3-4 years you do the full pivot and get a huge jumpstart by moving on from DM, Rudy, and you embark on the process.

 

[latin jazz]

He's at his peak but we don't know how long that can extend. He might be a peak guy over the whole life of the deal. The trades that I think are actually out there might be pretty terrible. I expect DM to be here through most of his next extension, but it might be better for both us and him to move on towards the end of that deal. I think the chance that a guys stays 12-15 years in today's NBA is small.

Rudy isn't untradeable once he signs his extension... assuming it isn't the supermax. If it doesn't work well the next year there will be teams that missed their FA mark and might put in serious assets to get something done.

I also don't think we've done a ton to really adjust and help Rudy be successful. What if we make an adjustment and use some zone defense and it turns out having a rim protector live at the rim becomes really effective? We haven't tried enough around these guys just punt and get rid of one of them. Part of the reason we haven't adjusted is that a lot of the stuff has worked to a good degree. We now need to be a bit more flexible in our approach with an eye towards the postseason.

Yeah, at around 30-35M a year, there will be plenty of teams willing to trade for an All NBA center, DPOY in his prime. I don't get why people want to trade him now.

I say, improve the team now, give it a go for the next 2-3. Blow it up if it doesn't work by then. Windows are pretty short in today's NBA and you must go all in if you have a superstar in your roster. You might be one Anthony Davis twisted ankle away from reaching the finals.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Say we hit on a draft pick this year on a Pascal Siakham, Malcom Brognon, or even just on a Derrick White, OG Anunoby, Josh Hart type of level. You then either have a great rotation piece that raises the ceiling of the team or a solid trade piece to help get a win now piece.

Say you hit on a value FA addition... you go get Jordan McLaughlin and he turns out to be the second coming of Van Vleet... then you are in the money and right there.

Conley is also a trade piece. If you take on a bad contract what else can you get... can that contract recover some value and be an asset like CP did for OKC?

There are a lot of options outside of trading Rudy... it isn't off the table but I'm saving that chip for much later in the game (unless he won't sign a reasonable extension).

 

[LoPo]

the way finals teams have come together the last few years I'm comfortable keeping Rudy and DM and configuring the pieces around them. If we take a conservative approach to the draft and FA then it likely won't be successful. We need to take some chances on young FAs with upside and find some gems in the draft or with undrafted guys.

Miami came together in a weird environment but had some guys really pop... Toronto too. We have as good a chance at finding lightening in a bottle the next few years as you could probably hope for. Trading Rudy might be a measured approach and might make us younger but I don't think pushing the window out gives you a much better chance at title when/if those players develop. We have to get lucky with a couple additions... most teams need a fair amount of luck to win a title.

If it doesn't work then in 3-4 years you do the full pivot and get a huge jumpstart by moving on from DM, Rudy, and you embark on the process.

Toronto added Kawhi.
Lakers added AD.
Miami added Jimmy.

We added freaking Mike Conley.

Now if you were advocating trading Conley for assets, I'm all ears. To assume that we can add some All Star level to Rudy and DM, that's so incredibly unlikely.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah, at around 30-35M a year, there will be plenty of teams willing to trade for an All NBA center, DPOY in his prime. I don't get why people want to trade him now.

I say, improve the team now, give it a go for the next 2-3. Blow it up if it doesn't work by then. Windows are pretty short in today's NBA and you must go all in if you have a superstar in your roster. You might be one Anthony Davis twisted ankle away from reaching the finals.

I don't think many teams will be lined up to trade for Rudy when he's 30 or older making $30+. Remember, his extension means we aren't trading him until trade deadline in 2022 at the earliest. And if we're trading him, it's because it isn't working and we are probably not doing very well as a team. At that point, Rudy has lower value and 3 more massive years on his deal. Just think Kevin Love who Cleveland can't even get a 1st for.

There is such a void this offseason of top end talent. The best names on the market are through trade. The free agent list is a joke. Oladipo, Hayward, Rose, and Chris Paul are the biggest players available. If we made Rudy available, I think we could get a very, very good deal. He would be the best player available. Teams like NY, Atlanta and others might jump at the chance to get him. Those teams have loads of assets.

 

[jom2003]

Rudy and DM fit quite well. We have some good pieces around them. We have not tried everything we can to make them the most effective players they can be.

I also think with the attack on the big man that his trade value will net you pieces of Meh and not anything that really changes the trajectory long term unless you hit big on a pick.

We can still move Conley and there are other moves that can improve the depth pieces. If DM takes a major leap in development we can get in the title convo. If that happened and you moved Rudy to take a step back and build for the future then we could miss on the title window for a grab bag of potential.

If Boston wants to send Jaylen Brown we can talk... they won't though.

DM scoring number goes up every season by 2-3 points/100poss when he's playing without rudy on the floor, so offensively i don't think they fit that well together.

On/Off Court Compare Traditional

A research tool used to compare a multitude of player or team stats while another player or teammate is On or Off the court.

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AND we have already tried everything to help maximize their talent but we FAILED. now we are running superlow on pieces AND assets, which is not a position you wanna be in.

you can have your bench filled with scrubs (with room for improvement), OR owing multiple draft picks to several teams(as long as you get rotational pieces that fill your bench in return). But it's tough to be both. we ARE in both.

it's a smaller version of billy king nets in which we don't have enough rotational players, neither do we have enough assets available to acquire any more pieces. If JC sign with some other teams, we are toast. MLE/23rd pick simply won't get you enough help to this current bench of bradley, davis, niang and morgan. we are probably still gonna be playing royce 35 min a night while riding on what is now a 6-man-rotation. You can still hope for a Conley trade that is unlikely to happen, but in the end it is the franchise player that you'd have to move for you to get out of this rabbit hole, like when Brooklyn deal away Brook Lopez in 2017.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Utah has one 1st round pick and one 2nd round pick (I should say two, but they have one coming in as well, so net -1, and even then I should say they are a net positive because the one they have coming in will likely be a high 30's/low 40's pick, which is much more valuable than the 50+ slot they are giving up when they trade their own, of which are easily bought every year) going out and y'all act like they are in some huge asset hole. They arent.

The Jazz got dudes with value outside their two stars. Bogey is easily tradeable for multiple assets. Royce is tradeable. Ingles is tradeable. Conley is tradeable.

The Jazz don't have a single contract outside of Ed Davis that would cost anything to unload.

Should we be trading? Not in my opinion. This team is really ****ing good and should only be better next year. Of course if there is something out there that improves the team, go for it, but I dont think the team should be looking at trades that negatively impact the present for a low % shot at a better future.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

This team with a healthy Bogey is still very good (keep in mind he was playing with a hurt wrist (which explains his drop off in shot %. I think if we move Conley to the bench, it opens up a lot for this team. No need to blow up unless, as others have suggested, Rudy demand the super max or a trade. I'd also like to see some more sets to complement our players. Snyder's sets aren't my favorite by any means, but at least put in some other sets to mix things up. I don't love Griffin, I think he is weak mentally, but I think Snyder could get him inline, and Rudy can help cover some of his defensive lapses. Hell, getting rid of Conley would be addition by subtraction.

 

[LoPo]

This team with a healthy Bogey is still very good (keep in mind he was playing with a hurt wrist (which explains his drop off in shot %. I think if we move Conley to the bench, it opens up a lot for this team. No need to blow up unless, as others have suggested, Rudy demand the super max or a trade. I'd also like to see some more sets to complement our players. Snyder's sets aren't my favorite by any means, but at least put in some other sets to mix things up. I don't love Griffin, I think he is weak mentally, but I think Snyder could get him inline, and Rudy can help cover some of his defensive lapses. Hell, getting rid of Conley would be addition by subtraction.

I think the next 2 years of the NBA is going to be an absolute mess. COVID. Finances. Unprecedented limitations for fans and access. It's a bad time to lock ourselves into a roster that simply doesn't have enough. It would be different if we were younger or had assets. But Rudy, Conley, Bogey, Joe and Royce are due so much money. That's not counting our long term superstar Don who is set to be paid.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think the next 2 years of the NBA is going to be an absolute mess. COVID. Finances. Unprecedented limitations for fans and access. It's a bad time to lock ourselves into a roster that simply doesn't have enough. It would be different if we were younger or had assets. But Rudy, Conley, Bogey, Joe and Royce are due so much money. That's not counting our long term superstar Don who is set to be paid.

If anything the NBA being a mess means Utah is at a greater advantage with a mostly set roster with continuity...

 

[LoPo]

If anything the NBA being a mess means Utah is at a greater advantage with a mostly set roster with continuity...

A roster that can't get out of the first round? A roster that's looking like $130 million before Conley for 21-22?

And how can you say continuity? Bogey was added this year, but missed the playoffs. Conley was added this year, but missed a lot of games (and we actually played better). Clarkson was added midyear, and he struggled when we needed him in the playoffs.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

A roster that can't get out of the first round? A roster that's looking like $130 million before Conley for 21-22?

And how can you say continuity? Bogey was added this year, but missed the playoffs. Conley was added this year, but missed a lot of games (and we actually played better). Clarkson was added midyear, and he struggled when we needed him in the playoffs.

Yes, keeping those players means you have continuity genius. I didnt say they had continuity last year. Last year was a transition year and this year they will get the benefits of continuity (fingers crossed JC is able to be brought back of course). Hopefully they can upgrade the margins of the roster with the draft, free agency, and internal improvement from Morgan/Oni.

And how in the hell did Jordan Clarkson struggle? What grass you smoking? The dude put up an efficient 17 ppg from the bench. And that was with an overstretched scoring load on him because of the Bogey injury.

You really have to stop speaking out your ***.

 

[LoPo]

Yes, keeping those players means you have continuity genius. I didnt say they had continuity last year. Last year was a transition year and this year they will get the benefits of continuity (fingers crossed JC is able to be brought back of course). Hopefully they can upgrade the margins of the roster with the draft, free agency, and internal improvement from Morgan/Oni.

And how in the hell did Jordan Clarkson struggle? What grass you smoking? The dude put up an efficient 17 ppg from the bench. And that was with an overstretched scoring load on him because of the Bogey injury.

You really have to stop speaking out your ***.

Oh okay. So you're using "continuity" as an excuse to keep the team together although the current starting lineup has played zero playoff games together. And we still can't even decide who our starting PG is. Or if Joe should start or come off the bench. But yeah, continuity.

There you go again going off of total ppg for the playoffs. What's next, you're going to brag about Conley because he had his one or two great games out of 5? JC and Conley did not make enough of a positive impact in games 5, 6 and 7.

But hey, we got your continuity to hang our hat on....

 

[cowhide]

Trying to trade him because he stopped developing offensively and is turning into a Kirilinko head case who also wants a super max.

well you may think he is an AK headcase but he hasn't stop working on his game. The only reason we had a chance to win the seventh game down the stretch was because of Rudy. Jazz need to add length and athleticism on our roster. Guys like Morgan, Giang, etc should be getting mop up minutes. It was painfully obvious that are PF is horrible. In the Denver game if the Jazz were able to rebound the series would have been over in 5.

 

[cowhide]

Yes, keeping those players means you have continuity genius. I didnt say they had continuity last year. Last year was a transition year and this year they will get the benefits of continuity (fingers crossed JC is able to be brought back of course). Hopefully they can upgrade the margins of the roster with the draft, free agency, and internal improvement from Morgan/Oni.

And how in the hell did Jordan Clarkson struggle? What grass you smoking? The dude put up an efficient 17 ppg from the bench. And that was with an overstretched scoring load on him because of the Bogey injury.

You really have to stop speaking out your ***.

Clarkson did struggle in a few of the playoff games especially in the 7th game. However, I agree to say he struggled a lot is a bunch a crap. He saved us a lot of times. I want him back because without him the Jazz have no one on the bench who can score.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Oh okay. So you're using "continuity" as an excuse to keep the team together although the current starting lineup has played zero playoff games together. And we still can't even decide who our starting PG is. Or if Joe should start or come off the bench. But yeah, continuity.

There you go again going off of total ppg for the playoffs. What's next, you're going to brag about Conley because he had his one or two great games out of 5? JC and Conley did not make enough of a positive impact in games 5, 6 and 7.

But hey, we got your continuity to hang our hat on....

You really refuse to just admit you are talking out your *** and just double down lmfao. You nitpicking the **** out of what "continuity" is looks really dumb. Even if you want to get super precise with starting/bench, the team is going to a continuity advantage this year over last year.

What in the hell were you expecting from Jordan Clarkson again? He's a 6th man scorer. He scored an efficient 17 ppg. He doesnt need to have a great game every game of a 7 game series to have a successful/good series. He did his job and he did it well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Clarkson did struggle in a few of the playoff games especially in the 7th game. However, I agree to say he struggled a lot is a bunch a crap. He saved us a lot of times. I want him back because without him the Jazz have no one on the bench who can score.

What kind of expectations should we have towards the 6th man? He greatly outperformed a guy like Lou Williams in his series vs Denver. Saying he struggled in the series is just a flat out mistruth. It's just the continuous stream of negative BS Lopo spouts about this roster to try and further his "the Jazz need to trade and shake it up" narrative.