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3 way trade for Gobert

jom2003 said:
DM scoring number goes up every season by 2-3 points/100poss when he's playing without rudy on the floor, so offensively i don't think they fit that well together.
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Unless it means that Gobert also takes some of the scoring load off of Mitchell.
 
jom2003 said:
DM scoring number goes up every season by 2-3 points/100poss when he's playing without rudy on the floor, so offensively i don't think they fit that well together.

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AND we have already tried everything to help maximize their talent but we FAILED. now we are running superlow on pieces AND assets, which is not a position you wanna be in.

you can have your bench filled with scrubs (with room for improvement), OR owing multiple draft picks to several teams(as long as you get rotational pieces that fill your bench in return). But it's tough to be both. we ARE in both.

it's a smaller version of billy king nets in which we don't have enough rotational players, neither do we have enough assets available to acquire any more pieces. If JC sign with some other teams, we are toast. MLE/23rd pick simply won't get you enough help to this current bench of bradley, davis, niang and morgan. we are probably still gonna be playing royce 35 min a night while riding on what is now a 6-man-rotation. You can still hope for a Conley trade that is unlikely to happen, but in the end it is the franchise player that you'd have to move for you to get out of this rabbit hole, like when Brooklyn deal away Brook Lopez in 2017.
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Wait so because DM scores a hair less when Rudy is on the floor they aren’t a good fit... even though when they play together we are a plus 6 and when Rudy is off the floor DM is a -7? Is the goal to have DM score or to our score your opponent?

We haven’t tried everything. I promise you we see some zone next year.
 
LoPo said:
Toronto added Kawhi.
Lakers added AD.
Miami added Jimmy.

We added freaking Mike Conley.

Now if you were advocating trading Conley for assets, I'm all ears. To assume that we can add some All Star level to Rudy and DM, that's so incredibly unlikely.
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Championships are incredibly unlikely.

Forget the Lakers... wasn't what I was referring to. Toronto and Miami had opportunities to blow it up and didn't... then opportunities came along. Imagine if Toronto trades Kyle Lowry prior to having the chance to acquire Kawhi (for pennies on the dollar). Toronto also got lucky that OG dropped to them... Pascal took a huge step forward that people would not have guessed.

Miami has Bam develop but also is not in a place to succeed if Herro doesn't pop and if they didn't hit homeruns on Duncan and Kendrick. They almost dumped Goran in the offseason to get the space to sign Jimmy. No one thought that Miami was a potential finals team... when they signed Jimmy people laughed at overpaying the vet to a deal that will get ugly in a couple years... especially since they were barely a playoff team.

Sometimes things come together... most of the time they don't. It is unlikely to work either way, but it is more likely to work if we keep the two all-stars together and cross our fingers that we get lucky.

Rudy's trade value this offseason, on a one year deal that someone can extend to a max deal if they want, is not going to be much different than it will next year assuming he signs a max deal and is still healthy. Maybe they figure it out or a good deal comes along due to a team being desperate. If we force a trade now we are likely to get a pretty meh return. Trade him on our terms and we may do better (the Kings or Hornets are close to the playoffs and pay a premium to get him).

If he won't sign an extension then do what you must to get some future value.
 
LoPo said:
I don't think many teams will be lined up to trade for Rudy when he's 30 or older making $30+. Remember, his extension means we aren't trading him until trade deadline in 2022 at the earliest. And if we're trading him, it's because it isn't working and we are probably not doing very well as a team. At that point, Rudy has lower value and 3 more massive years on his deal. Just think Kevin Love who Cleveland can't even get a 1st for.

There is such a void this offseason of top end talent. The best names on the market are through trade. The free agent list is a joke. Oladipo, Hayward, Rose, and Chris Paul are the biggest players available. If we made Rudy available, I think we could get a very, very good deal. He would be the best player available. Teams like NY, Atlanta and others might jump at the chance to get him. Those teams have loads of assets.
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We disagree on how good of an asset he will be in 2-3. His extension will take him right until the end of his prime. And I can see Rudy being effective even then. I would rather trade Bogie, Conley or Royce than our All-NBA center. Unless of course, is clear DM is leaving (or we are nowhere near being contenders), then you should blow it up. But it's too soon to trade him now.
 
cowhide said:
well you may think he is an AK headcase but he hasn't stop working on his game. The only reason we had a chance to win the seventh game down the stretch was because of Rudy. Jazz need to add length and athleticism on our roster. Guys like Morgan, Giang, etc should be getting mop up minutes. It was painfully obvious that are PF is horrible. In the Denver game if the Jazz were able to rebound the series would have been over in 5.
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If he hasn't stopped working on his game and we are going into year 8 with him and he still can't be depended on for more than a dunk offensively, we're in trouble.
 
latin jazz said:
We disagree on how good of an asset he will be in 2-3. His extension will take him right until the end of his prime. And I can see Rudy being effective even then. I would rather trade Bogie, Conley or Royce than our All-NBA center. Unless of course, is clear DM is leaving (or we are nowhere near being contenders), then you should blow it up. But it's too soon to trade him now.
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So what do we get for bogie? Or joe? Cause their two contracts are limiting the **** out of what we can do down the road. Royce is not that bad.


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Why is everyone so eager to trade the best center in team history when he's 28 years old? These next 3 years are the prime of Gobert's prime.
 
LoPo said:
I think the next 2 years of the NBA is going to be an absolute mess. COVID. Finances. Unprecedented limitations for fans and access. It's a bad time to lock ourselves into a roster that simply doesn't have enough. It would be different if we were younger or had assets. But Rudy, Conley, Bogey, Joe and Royce are due so much money. That's not counting our long term superstar Don who is set to be paid.
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I don't disagree, but you don't panic and move your foundation players for less adequate replacements. Try to dump Conley without giving up big assets or taking on longer contracts, try to get a trade exception. Start Mitchell, and see what you have before making decisions. Gobert has limits, but he brings so much to the table. Massage the offense to utlilize Rudy more to free up other players. Bring in a scoring big, and run different sets for them. I think we need better x's and o's. Haven't been a fan of Quin's playbook ever.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Wait so because DM scores a hair less when Rudy is on the floor they aren’t a good fit... even though when they play together we are a plus 6 and when Rudy is off the floor DM is a -7? Is the goal to have DM score or to our score your opponent?

We haven’t tried everything. I promise you we see some zone next year.
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that's why i never said they don't fit together, just saying they don't fit each other that well offensively. i'm not excited about the possibility of trading rudy. he would leave behind a huge defensive gap that is near impossible to fill. also like i said we gotta be especially careful cuz we don't wanna get stuck in a brooklyn nets type of season in which we "tank" for memphis.

if we can choose i'd love to see us continue to compete with the DM/Rudy duo. but we simply don't have any more assets gong forward. MLE+23rd pick, that is all we have available to improve a team that currently has only 6 legit nba players under contract. playing some zone might help, but it's not some magic fix that would all of sudden bring the likes of tucker or brantley into the rotation.
 
It'd be a tough decision but at the end of the day I wouldn't trade Gobert for a 3-way.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You really refuse to just admit you are talking out your *** and just double down lmfao. You nitpicking the **** out of what "continuity" is looks really dumb. Even if you want to get super precise with starting/bench, the team is going to a continuity advantage this year over last year.

What in the hell were you expecting from Jordan Clarkson again? He's a 6th man scorer. He scored an efficient 17 ppg. He doesnt need to have a great game every game of a 7 game series to have a successful/good series. He did his job and he did it well.
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You brought up continuity.
You brought it up like we have been contenders and this team has had a lot of time together. You brought up an irrelevant point to justify keeping it all together. It was a terrible point. By you.

Clarkson looked great for us last year. I want him back. He went missing down the stretch against Denver, but he is still valuable to us.



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I'm fine keeping Rudy on two conditions.

#1 - we don't overpay on his extension

#2 - we look to move Conley. Our defense is not as successful with two average, small defenders who weaken the team defense concept. Maybe we can bring Conley off the bench, but I don't think we will do that.

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jom2003 said:
that's why i never said they don't fit together, just saying they don't fit each other that well offensively. i'm not excited about the possibility of trading rudy. he would leave behind a huge defensive gap that is near impossible to fill. also like i said we gotta be especially careful cuz we don't wanna get stuck in a brooklyn nets type of season in which we "tank" for memphis.

if we can choose i'd love to see us continue to compete with the DM/Rudy duo. but we simply don't have any more assets gong forward. MLE+23rd pick, that is all we have available to improve a team that currently has only 6 legit nba players under contract. playing some zone might help, but it's not some magic fix that would all of sudden bring the likes of tucker or brantley into the rotation.
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We have trades too... can't fix it with one move... just keep adding the best we can and you never know what shakes loose. I think we could reconfigure... my point is I wouldn't start with Rudy.

I know zone isn't a magic fix but we haven't tried many things to keep Rudy near the basket on defense outside of just doing the drop big thing. There are other options and things we could experiment with.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We have trades too... can't fix it with one move... just keep adding the best we can and you never know what shakes loose. I think we could reconfigure... my point is I wouldn't start with Rudy.

I know zone isn't a magic fix but we haven't tried many things to keep Rudy near the basket on defense outside of just doing the drop big thing. There are other options and things we could experiment with.
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Well my point is that we can't really fix it. Not with our current cap hold+lack of assets. Or you actually believe that teams are gonna give us any meaningful pieces in exchange for Conley or any of the Niang/Bradley/Davis/Tucker/Oni/Brantley fellas? We ran out of second round picks for trade too so don't expect another korver/JC style midseason bailout. If we lose JC then blow the 23rd pick it's pretty much game over. A six man rotation. Unless we can score a homerun by getting someone like Wood with the MLE which remains highly unlikely.
 
DasJazz said:
If he hasn't stopped working on his game and we are going into year 8 with him and he still can't be depended on for more than a dunk offensively, we're in trouble.
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Since your statement is false, it's not a worry.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
What kind of expectations should we have towards the 6th man? He greatly outperformed a guy like Lou Williams in his series vs Denver. Saying he struggled in the series is just a flat out mistruth. It's just the continuous stream of negative BS Lopo spouts about this roster to try and further his "the Jazz need to trade and shake it up" narrative.
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He had a bad 7th game. Missed two wide open 3's to end quarters. Personally, no one had a great game in the 7th game not even DM. It was a defensive struggle. I want Clarkson back, he was huge for the Jazz but he also gets tunnel vision and chucks up bad shots too.
 
cowhide said:
He had a bad 7th game. Missed two wide open 3's to end quarters. Personally, no one had a great game in the 7th game not even DM. It was a defensive struggle. I want Clarkson back, he was huge for the Jazz but he also gets tunnel vision and chucks up bad shots too.
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I want Clarkson back because we need a bench scorer that badly. He seemed like he fit the scheme and lockerroom quite well. He didn't play great in the playoffs down the stretch, but that goes for a lot of the guys.

As for Donovan, I would agree that he had a poor 1st half of Game 7. However, he was absolutely incredible in that 3rd quarter. He literally carried us to a chance to compete in the game. His defense was top notch. His effort was unmatched. It's unfortunate he had to carry the load he had to carry. Which brings us back to Conley and Clarkson. Neither guy stepped up at all down the stretch.
 
LoPo said:
I want Clarkson back because we need a bench scorer that badly. He seemed like he fit the scheme and lockerroom quite well. He didn't play great in the playoffs down the stretch, but that goes for a lot of the guys.

As for Donovan, I would agree that he had a poor 1st half of Game 7. However, he was absolutely incredible in that 3rd quarter. He literally carried us to a chance to compete in the game. His defense was top notch. His effort was unmatched. It's unfortunate he had to carry the load he had to carry. Which brings us back to Conley and Clarkson. Neither guy stepped up at all down the stretch.
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I agree with you. Just pointing out that they didn't play as well as they had been playing. I especially agree with your comment about DM defense. He was spent in the fourth after carry us in the 3rd and playing excellent defense on Murray.
 
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