A summary of what the Jazz sent, and received (with pick specifics)

[ijazz]

so stupid. We needed to know if we were trading him by the end of last season, and this is exactly why.

When this deal was announced earlier, and we all thought we were getting the top three protected Detroit pick this year, I was a little more understanding, but this?! Just damn. I am starting t believe DL doesn't know what he's doing.

I know this bullet point will catch flack from some one here, but I see these as bad moves he's made since taking over:

1. Keeping Ty for the last season of his contract, despite the obvious isses it was creating with our young players.
2. Burning a pick and money to move up to get Trey and others whe we could've had Giannis or Schroeder, Gobert and Neto at our initial positions in 13' draft. Trey's limitations were very known, and while Schroeder and Giais were unproen, their obvious talent and unique body types were not.
3. Signing John Lucas III to mentr Trey. Some say it was brilliant be ause he was atabk commander, but I think tthe truth is that JLIII's prior relationship was more at play. Tank Commaner? No. Bad habit reinforcer? Most definitely.
4. Not dealing Al or Paul at the trade deadline. Reports of Sap for Bledsoe were very real. Yes, we'd have to pay him, but look at us now. We just let one of the players walk, who we suppossedly let Al and Paul go or so we could eventually pay. Stupid.
5. Clearing a log jam of good bigs, to turn around and create another one with mediocre bigs. Acquiring Novak and Booker made little sense. He tried to do too much, and it choed out a good prospect.



Reports are OKC intend to sign Enes after the season. If he wins a title with them, the FO is going to look really stupid.

Biggest screw up in my opinion was Hayward.

Rumor was he wanted 4/48 or 4/52. Should have paid him, maybe even gone 5/60.

Now Hayward is 4/63 with an opt out in 3 years (only 2 years away).

I hope Hayward stays but that timing is right after the NBA TV deal , so I have a feeling if Hayward plays like he is now through the next 2 seasons, he opts out and cashes in.

 

[stitches]

Facts are, we traded a 22 yr old who is shooting roughly 50% from the feild, 80% from FT, added a three-point shot which he hits at 31%. Per 36 minute, 18.4 pts and 10.4 reb player for a scrub, a euro who we'll never see, a second round pick, and first which will most likely be two second round picks. We could've got that value by window shopping the Dleague and just let Kanter walk if someone offered him something too high.

How do some of you, even the most ardent Kanter haters, see real value in this?

Don't even say cap space.

We now have 6 first round picks and 11 second round picks in the next 4 years. I will give you a hint. Not all of those will be drafted by the Jazz. Today Boston turned a second rounder and Marcus Thornton into Isaiah Thomas. We have a ton of assets and we will make moves with them at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if we package say ... several first rounders to move in the draft and take a player we really like. I also wouldn't be surprised if we trade some of those assets for players who can help immediately(after the trade).

 

[Sexual Favors]

Biggest screw up in my opinion was Hayward.

Rumor was he wanted 4/48 or 4/52. Should have paid him, maybe even gone 5/60.

Now Hayward is 4/63 with an opt out in 3 years (only 2 years away).

I hope Hayward stays but that timing is right after the NBA TV deal , so I have a feeling if Hayward plays like he is now through the next 2 seasons, he opts out and cashes in.

True.

Getting rid of Kanter, w/o a replacement of similar talent, pushes our timetable back as well. We can't expect Hayward to stick around for a third contract unless we can offer him something more than money.


I am a fan of inking all players before their fourth year, so long as they've proven they belong in the league. Both Enes and Hayward had. A Derrick like signing fo Enes would've allowed us to trade him for a lot more, as everyone knows that the deal will be seen as less the following season. We knew about the TV deal in the summer.


This is just poor foresight abd reactionery GM work.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I like that we'll have an OKC first-rounder in the post-Durant, post-Westbrook era. OKC will do down in flames.

Did you read that it's lottery protected? No chance of getting a great pick from them.

 

[Fishsticks]

Do you disregard what people close to the team hve said after the trade was announced, or do you still believe Kanter is hated by everyone?

It does not matter anymore. You don't need to defend him. Life will be much easier for you from here on out.

 

[Sexual Favors]

We now have 6 first round picks and 11 second round picks in the next 4 years. I will give you a hint. Not all of those will be drafted by the Jazz. Today Boston turned a second rounder and Marcus Thornton into Isaiah Thomas. We have a ton of assets and we will make moves with them at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if we package say ... several first rounders to move in the draft and take a player we really like. I also wouldn't be surprised if we trade some of those assets for players who can help immediately(after the trade).

Yes, it is possible in theory.

Last thing I saw from us like this was us burning the GSW pick to move up and grab Trey (and his very known limitations) when Schroeder and Giannis were available.

Having assets is only good if you are smart with them. Ainge is a master. I now have very good reason to question Lindsey.

Kanter could've netted us a lot more if only handled with foresight.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Facts are, we traded a 22 yr old who is shooting roughly 50% from the feild, 80% from FT, added a three-point shot which he hits at 31%. Per 36 minute, 18.4 pts and 10.4 reb player for a scrub, a euro who we'll never see, a second round pick, and first which will most likely be two second round picks. We could've got that value by window shopping the Dleague and just let Kanter walk if someone offered him something too high.

How do some of you, even the most ardent Kanter haters, see real value in this?

Don't even say cap space.

Enes was a cancer after he demanded a trade. I don't care if he was playing 30+ mins; he never would have remained in Utah if he wasn't a starter. Plain and simple, Gobert took away his job and Kanter ran to his corner like a little dog with his tail tucked between his legs.

Read Hayward's blog. The team is 100% behind Gobert because they can take more chances on defense. Nothing has EVER been said about Kanter making the team better.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Yes, it is possible in theory.

Last thing I saw from us like this was us burning the GSW pick to move up and grab Trey (and his very known limitations) when Schroeder and Giannis were available.

Having assets is only good if you are smart with them. Ainge is a master. I now have very good reason to question Lindsey.

Kanter could've netted us a lot more if only handled with foresight.

Yes, DL burned the GS pick. But he also bought a pick to get the player he really wanted with that GS pick.

Please outline why you think Ainge is a master. Also why they have a brighter future than Utah. That roster, to me, is terrible. Smart may turn into a good PG, Sullinger is decent. No one else is special.

 

[Flc]

Enes was a cancer after he demanded a trade. I don't care if he was playing 30+ mins; he never would have remained in Utah if he wasn't a starter. Plain and simple, Gobert took away his job and Kanter ran to his corner like a little dog with his tail tucked between his legs.

Read Hayward's blog. The team is 100% behind Gobert because they can take more chances on defense. Nothing has EVER been said about Kanter making the team better.

Yeah. Hayward is the master of throwing shade at people without saying it directly and by emphasizing the impact of their replacements. Did it with Snyder over Corbin, and now with Gobert over Kanter.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Enes was a cancer after he demanded a trade. I don't care if he was playing 30+ mins; he never would have remained in Utah if he wasn't a starter. Plain and simple, Gobert took away his job and Kanter ran to his corner like a little dog with his tail tucked between his legs.

Read Hayward's blog. The team is 100% behind Gobert because they can take more chances on defense. Nothing has EVER been said about Kanter making the team better.

You are discussing fit, I was discussing value. In assett accumulation mode, the latter is more important.

Also, a lot has been said about Enes in post game interviews by coaches in teammates, but that Enes hate is clogging your ear drums.

Let it be known, I am not some Enes vs Gobert guy. That's ********. I loved Gobert from the start. Before most on here, and my posts will prove that if you care to search. They could have easily coexisted with Derrick. Booker with the other three was the problem. Kanter > Booker as a prospect, though Book is a nice guy and has a great attitude.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Yes, DL burned the GS pick. But he also bought a pick to get the player he really wanted with that GS pick.

Please outline why you think Ainge is a master. Also why they have a brighter future than Utah. That roster, to me, is terrible. Smart may turn into a good PG, Sullinger is decent. No one else is special.

Yet again, you are putting words in my post that weren't there.

I never said they had a brighter future, or a better roster. We best them on both fronts.

Ainge however has championships to his name, and started this rebuild in a different position than what DL inherited. What Ainge has been able to acquire with fading stars is pretty good. In this NBa climate, he has acquired a lot of good picks in tough situations.

 

[Diamond77]

Please outline why you think Ainge is a master. Also why they have a brighter future than Utah. That roster, to me, is terrible. Smart may turn into a good PG, Sullinger is decent. No one else is special.

They traded Marcus Thornton and a first-round pick for Isaiah Thomas!

And the veteran Tayshaun Prince to Pistons for Jonas Jerebko, Luigi Datome.

Ainge deserves definitely some credit.

 

[slc]

Just a quick question
Was Jerrett on the Thunder payroll?
Or was he a D-League FA signing after the trade?

 

[gregbroncs]

I stopped reading after you said poisonous locker room. I know that is the easy assumption, but all indications and statements from everyone around the team contradicts this notion. Enes wasn't that type of guy, and the team didn't respon to him in that way.

You should go back and finish reading. Because his post(s) on this subject make a ton more sense than the ones you made. I disagree with almost all of your bad moves Lindsey made post. Most of those were necessary or looked good at the time and just did not work out. The one about Corbin I agree with, But I think that decision was made over his head. All the other's were good decisions at the time they were made.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

We should have had a trade thread where everybody says what they'd consider a good trade before it happened. I feel like certain people would have thought it was terrible no matter what... But then again... the same people said that the only way they'd consider Snyder having a successful season is if we were 50% team this year...

Yesterday we were talking about Ilyasova and a first for Kanter and I think a lot would have been OK with that type of trade. I actually think the front office did a great job when you account for all the circumstances. Of course it's not an even trade and of course the OKC received the best piece in the trade, but you cannot ignore the context in which this trade took place. You cannot ignore that Kanter is a restricted free agent in the summer. You cannot ignore the fact that he asked for a trade and all reports are that he and his agent have been pushing for a trade for a while now and he wanted out. You cannot ignore the reports about his desired salary and that he's very likely to receive an offer in the summer that we won't be willing to match. We just had to cut our losses and actually get some value for him.

We got a couple of picks, we freed up some space that we can use in free agency, we got the rights to a couple of young players that might not amount to a much but at least we can use them as assets, even if very minor ones.

I like this trade. The only thing I don't like is the heavy protection on the 1st round pick.

I am glad that you feel the front office did a great job. Good to know that KOC and Snyder have your full support with the Jazz new adapted culture of a losing mentality. So you can honestly say that the Jazz leave the trade deadline better than they were yesterday? You can say that this move will make up better come this date, next year?? Kanter needed to be traded without a doubt, but this is a trade someone makes when they don't know a better way and they are out of ideas. We should have been looking at trading Kanter a month ago. We would have obviously had more than this in return if we did.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I like that we'll have an OKC first-rounder in the post-Durant, post-Westbrook era. OKC will do down in flames.

Well that would mean they would never get in the PO and we would get 2 2nd round picks........

but hopefully one of them leaves and they just become a bottom tier playoff team, giving us a late teens pick when our books will be loaded and cheap rookie talent will be at a premium for us.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Facts are, we traded a 22 yr old who is shooting roughly 50% from the feild, 80% from FT, added a three-point shot which he hits at 31%. Per 36 minute, 18.4 pts and 10.4 reb player for a scrub, a euro who we'll never see, a second round pick, and first which will most likely be two second round picks. We could've got that value by window shopping the Dleague and just let Kanter walk if someone offered him something too high.

How do some of you, even the most ardent Kanter haters, see real value in this?

Don't even say cap space.

Fact: We just traded one of the worst passing big men in the history of basketball.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trade was worth it just to see SF bitch about it.

Funny, a lot of posters have been saying how *** Kanter is and it seems DL completely agreed with us.

When this deal allows us to have the extra money to sign Wesley Matthews in the off-season I'm going to lol that SF would rather have Kanter's fat, no passing, no defending, lot of bitchin' ***.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think we can get Matthews. We can offer him just as much money as anyone else (unless Portland wants to give him there 5 year max). He knows living in Utah isn't as bad as some think it is. He likes the fans and had a good experience here. He could be the final piece IMO that allows us to go big with 2 non-floor spacing behemoths down low.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Quote Originally Posted by Sexual Favors View Post
Facts are, we traded a 22 yr old who is shooting roughly 50% from the feild, 80% from FT, added a three-point shot which he hits at 31%. Per 36 minute, 18.4 pts and 10.4 reb player for a scrub, a euro who we'll never see, a second round pick, and first which will most likely be two second round picks. We could've got that value by window shopping the Dleague and just let Kanter walk if someone offered him something too high.

How do some of you, even the most ardent Kanter haters, see real value in this?

Don't even say cap space.

Fact: We just traded one of the worst passing big men in the history of basketball.

That was a pretty generic answer. There are so many big men who were horrible at passing, do you know why?? THAT'S NOT THERE JOB!! They are not there to be excellent passers, they are Centers!! If you have a Center that can pass, then it's a bonus. The point that Sexual Favors was making is that we traded for garbage. The trade needed to be done. Saying that we got rid of a center who couldn't pass is like saying we traded a point guard because he couldn't rebound or block shots. How about the next time that you quote a post to slam the comment (because we all know that's the only thing that your good at) you actually read it and have it make sense. We shouldn't have to make special flash cards to be able to properly communicate with one individual.