Nope, could still happen. As they should, there's still good time for Minny to wait for the best deal. Several teams are still waiting for smoke from the big-FA signings to clear.
Al Jefferson?
- Thread starter r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t
- Start date
That's the thing though. Lots of times teams are making low ball offers in situations like this, and a great guy ends up being traded for the best of these crappy offers. That offer is still crappy though. For example, when we were shopping Booz, I think best offer was pathetic scrub Tyrus Thomas. Vince Carter was traded for almost nothing. Gasol was. Now Beasley is traded for a pick 7 years from now. So, you see teams set on trading away a player, and other teams know that, and they give you 50 cents (or less) on a dollar hoping to get value for nothing. Why not make a good offer in this situation and be sure you get the guy you like? Al's value is a little lower now, because he was injured, and last year was below his standards. If we get him here to team up with Millsap, he could be back to 23 and 11 next year. He is only 25 too. Now all of the sudden we have young athletic C/PF combo that can defend and block some shots. Why not make a really good offer to make it happen? AK+unconditional first rounder+second rounder next year? You think Wolves will get a better offer?
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Yes they will get a way better offer. You can hold me to that also. And AK does not help them at all. They have too many SF's as it is right now.
The reason why I say they will get a better offer is this...........
All those players you just talked about being traded for almost nothing was because they needed to START rebuilding. When teams need to START rebuilding it almost always means they are looking to save money. And the Wolves are not close to the luxury tax. They are perfectly fine.
The other reason is NBA teams are a lot more desperate right now. Guys like Jefferson are hard to come by. So there will be a team who offers Minnesota a way better deal than us. Because of the desperation around the league for big man. Minnesota will get a decent offer. Somebody who will give them close to comparable talent.
I know its hard looking through Jazz goggles and hoping for the world for nothing but its not realistic when you look at the league as a whole.
Edit: By the way I am not saying its a horrible idea like most of the trade ideas thrown around. Its not exactly impossible but not realistic.
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Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Iggy for Jefferson is a better deal than what we have to offer.
Jason Richardsons expiring contract is better than AK's.
Jeff Green and fillers is better than what we have to offer.
There are also a lot of other teams who have expiring contracts like AK's. And they can give them better draft picks than us. So there is a lot of reasons why we won't be the best offer.
Jason Richardsons expiring contract is better than AK's.
Jeff Green and fillers is better than what we have to offer.
There are also a lot of other teams who have expiring contracts like AK's. And they can give them better draft picks than us. So there is a lot of reasons why we won't be the best offer.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Can someone please delete all of the Al Jefferson threads. I think there is like 5 of them.
My hole point was I want to offer a lot more than nothing for Jefferson. AK has some value around the League, and he has expiring deal, which makes him more attractive than before. Remember, we actually got VC, Marion, and TMac offered for him. We can also offer other good players, like CJ, Matthews if they like these more. I am not saying let's take Al for nothing at all, like LA took Gasol. Let's see what Al ends up being traded for, and you can tell me if Jazz could not make a better offer. As far as desperation for big men, there is a big desperation when you are trying to offload someone. That why we got Tyrus Thomas offered for Booz. That's why 2nd overall pick Beasley, who is averaging 15 and 6 at 21 years of age for play-off team, just got traded for a right to switch a first round pick 7 years from now. Btw, 7 years from now Bosh, Wade, and Lebron may not even be with Heat anymore. So, it is possible Heat will actually have a better pick than Wolves, and exchange would be worthless. I don't know about you, but an unprotected first rounder next year from us when Heat actually needs talent for cheap to fill out the roster around big 3, actually might be a better proposition for Heat than a pick exchange 7 years from now with Wolves.
No benefit to the Sixers. They also already have Brand's big contract. They could send Iguodala elsewhere if they wanted, including to get rid of Brand not get a similar contract at the same spot.
Jefferson doesn't seem like a good fit for the Suns' style and they probably know it too. Not impossible but not realistic.
Probably the only package in the list to be realistic and would trump an AK + pick offer.
So one good and two unlikely deals just from that list doesn't prove there's a swarm of offers that should deter the Jazz from even trying.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
By the way the Grizzlies got Marc Gasol for Paul Gasol so it wasn't for nothing.
And CJ Miles and Matthews have no value to the Wolves. They have like 5 wing players already who are comparable to them and they want playing time for those guys. So we have no young talent they want.
And you keep saying 7 years from now but you have no idea if that will be the case. You can say the same thing about our memphis pick. We might get nothing at all in return.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Al Jefferson could play Center for the Sixers. And everyone knows Evan Turner and Iggy cannot coexist. So it frees up the ball for Turner and gives them a center next to Brand.
Jefferson doesn't seem like a good fit for the suns? Who just lost Amare? Can you give me a reason why?
The swarm of offers that are better are the expiring contracts around the league. And there is A LOT. The deal breaker that makes our offer not as good is because there is about 12-15 teams that have better draft picks than we do to offer.
friendsinmyhead
Member
I agree with you it is unrealistic. But only because KOC wont bother to make an offer.
People are traded for nothing all of the time. Minny will end up giving up AJ for little to nothing. And yes Beasley was given up for nothing - a 2nd or 1st rounder in the next 7 years means nothing.
Yeah, since they've played zero games together. Come on, even the Kings waited for Tyreke Evans to blow up and Kevin Martin to come back before trading the latter. If Turner and Iggy can't coexist because they're somehow similar players, then how can you be sure Brand and Jefferson, also similar players, can coexist. If the Sixers are trading Iggy, that's also to get rid of Brand. Again, it's unrealistic the Sixers would trade for Jefferson.
Doesn't fit the Suns game as everybody knows it. I thought I'd already mentioned that obvious point. They would've already traded for Jefferson if they wanted to. Again, not impossible but not realistic.
Point remains, not a swarm of offers for Al Jefferson out there.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
AK + Memphis pick for Jefferson. Jefferson was still recovering last year, but if he gets back to 100% and can put up 23/11/1.7 (blocks) we got a good deal. I know its a big "what if", but he would never be on the market in the first place if he never got injured. Must take risks to get better, there is no way around it.
I know people are saying he isn't a legit center, but he is closer to one than Boozer as he is a legit 6'10" with shot blocking ability. Playing Sap and Jefferson simultaneously would be a much better option than Sap/Boozer was the last 4 years.
I know people are saying he isn't a legit center, but he is closer to one than Boozer as he is a legit 6'10" with shot blocking ability. Playing Sap and Jefferson simultaneously would be a much better option than Sap/Boozer was the last 4 years.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
The reason Iggy cannot coexist with Turner is because they both need to dominate the ball to be effective. Turner is already having problems with Holiday. And Big guys are different. Just because Brand and Jefferson have similar games that doesn't mean they can't coexist. Brand is a role player now.
And again I will ask. Why does Jefferson not fit with the Suns? You never said why. You only said he doesn't fit and repeated yourself. You mentioned it but it is not obvious or you would of stated WHY. Nash could make him a lot better. And they don't have a true PF right now. Frye and Warrick are not real PF's.
The offers again are the better draft picks that the other half of the league have. That we don't.
Marc Gasol was a nobody then (second round pick) and he is nothing compared to Pau now. LA got Gasol for nothing.
I have a feeling they want to drop Al's contact and get some value in return. AK47 is a starting Sf for them from the get go, and his contract comes off the books, plus we can give them picks. Anyway, we can talk all day what they want and what they don't want. Let's see what they trade him for, and then you tell me if this really was such a great value they got that we could not provide.
Yes, 7 years from now. And it is not me saying that, it's the reports that are saying that. And as far as Memphis pick, it is at worst 3 mil. Money Miami sure can use after just committing to 3 MAX contracts. Besides, we could have offered them better of these 2 picks. I am just trying to imagine what's more important to Miami: getting cheap talent right away next year to surround big 3 with talent and win title (and keeping their own pick) in the form of unprotected 1st rounder (possibly lotto pick too: after all, we just lost our second best player or Memphis pick might get triggered) or swapping a pick with Wolves 7 years from now, which could be lotto or could be nothing. I don't know for sure, but logically I just don't think KOC made this offer. If he did, I am pretty sure Beasley would be a member of the Jazz right now. Option to swap a pick 7 years from now just doesn't seem as important at the moment: Miami has other needs more: like getting talent and winning title NOW.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Nice.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Look at the result of the trade not what happened than for the Gasol trade. Marc Gasol is a good player and they got cap space to make a more balanced roster. It looked like a salary dump at the time but Gasol sure panned out.
AK would not start for them. Wesley Johnson maybe? the guy they just drafted to play SF. He would start. They also traded there other pick for Martell Webster. and they still have Corey Brewer and Wayne Ellington. They have plenty of wing players. And they are all young so they don't need AK. And Love & Beasley at the 4. So AK is not needed. They want to develop the young players. They don't care about AK.
The reports are saying that its protected and if the protection keeps them from getting the draft pick after 7 years than its unprotected. You cannot trade away a draft pick 7 years in the future. That is total speculation. So this speculation needs to stop that we could of got beasley if we tried. Its bogus.
The fans are just panicking because we lost Boozer so everyone wants a big move right away. So everyone is going crazy because the have to wait and see.
This. ^^^
Oh, plus the same people will scream about any player we let leave AND about any player we choose to bring in. Being a whiner is a pretty easy job...
David Stern
Well-Known Member
They can have AK! This is their SF offseason, remember?
anonymous832
Member
Do you know anything about Jefferson's game? If you did, you might understand why he doesn't fit with the Phoenix offense. He's not a running PF. The Suns need players who run. A lot. He can run well enough to do so in transition, but he's not a great fit for an up-tempo team that likes to run as much as the Suns do. That's why Amare worked so well in that system - a freakishly athletic guy who can run. Even Warrick works better in that system. Not that I'm a huge fan of his, but he's an athletic forward who can run and has solid offensive skills. Jefferson is a post-up specialist who slows things down.
Giving away Pau for bunch of scrubs was the worst trade in NBA history. Yes, they got lucky and a second rounder they picked up as a part of it, turned out OK. Yet he is nowhere near the caliber of Pau. Even if you look at end result, Memphis got screwed big time. There is just no way around the fact this was an unbelievable gift to LA. Just look at rings their fingers.
You are missing the point completely. They want to dump Al's salary, and look at what offers they are getting for it: https://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_...still_talking_trade_with_wolves_on_jefferson/
Dallas is offering Stevenson (2ppg) and Caroll (also 2ppg player, plus he is owed 7.5 mil AFTER next year). Dallas is not even willing to give them expiring contract of Dampier for Jefferson. Yes, 35 year old Dampier, who is done playing good ball, but has expiring contract as his only value. No, that offer is too good. As I told you before, when a team is looking to dump salary, offers are not very good. Jazz can easily step in here, give a good player with expiring contract plus picks, and get the deal done. That offer is much better than Stevenson and Caroll, who is owed money after this season, and even better than Dampier, which Dallas is not even willing to offer.
Everything we talk about on this board is speculation. But this one has merit. Miami gave up 2 first rounders to Toronto for Bosh. They don't have a first pick next year. Do you think if we stepped up and offered a first rounder next year, which could be a lottery pick (if we do not make play-offs after lozing Booz or if Memphis' pick get triggered), but even if not - an unprotected first rounder they can use right away, they would not take it over Wolves pick swap, which may not even be done for next 7 years, and perhaps not even then? Right when they need cheap talent (i.e. draft picks!!!) to fill out the roster around big 3?
Let's be intellectually honest here. And yes that means no more nonsense how Memphis giving up Gasol somehow turned out to be a good trade for them.