Buffalo Shooting

[babe]

First point, I think the modern day English Torries are more like Nixon's Republicans, evil ****ers without any moral compass or intellectual integrity. The Nazis were not actually completely about state ownership they formed what is called a bund, a version of it is still used in Germany today, in effect industry would be run via a partnership between business and the state. (In modern Germany unions have a seat at this table too.)

The second point, it can end up and in most communist states almost always does end being that the state is put before the people. A lot of this can be traced back to the origins of Leninism but i can go on forever about this. In Democratic Socialist societies, they have almost all been democratic and stable, I can't think of an elected democratic socialist party that has attempted to install a dictatorship, I can think of a couple that have been overthrown by the US government in order to install a dictatorship tho.

I think modern American politics, both Dem and Republican, are historically "Tory" parties. The Republicans were taken over in the 1890s by British progressives like Lord Cecil Rhodes, the League of Nations club, warmongers who made America an Imperialist power in Cuba and the Philippines. The Robber Barons, all that. The democrats became a Tory holding when Winthrop and Jay Rockefeller installed Bill Clinton as Pres. To hell with the Unions in America, they're all wholly owned subsidiaries of Management.

People laugh at this. Stupid laughs. Sir Henry Kissinger is the model in American politics today.

And, yes, Liz Cheney is on that track.

Sir Henry Kissinger, Honorary Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George, and a professed agent of the Queen.

In a May 10,1982 speech to Chatham House (the Royallnsti tute for International Affairs), Sir Henry Kissinger bragged that he had been a British agent in the Nixon and Ford adminis trations,servi…

www.algora.com

And to add to the list, here are some others:

Don’t call him 'sir': Law prof reflects on receiving honorary knight award from the UK

The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue.

www.abajournal.com

As a practical matter, our" US-based" Council on Foreign Relations is a subsidiary of Chatham House. with about 10,000 US leaders getting the "word" every month. Most of the SES personnel, many military leaders, almost all the media honchos, almost every President since it's creation.

Donald Trump went, hat in hand, to kiss the ring of the head of the CFR before he publicly announced his run for the Presidency. The Brookings Institution is a like-mind parallel organization, and that's where "The Resistance" got its start, as soon as Donald John was in the race. In fact, Trump called Bill and Hillary his friends and called them privately before he announced his run publicly, as well.

With information like that, it's an open question whether Trump is really the MAGA man, or the Chump in the Brit puppet show.

 

[babe]

Just another jab in the activist eye......

Here is Kissinger, today, talking about Russia and China.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b89jcNqgJo


Can anyone see the British Foreign Office in his head. Divide your enemies. Manipulate them to hate one another Trick them into fighting wars with each other.. Get the Peace Prize.

Without this kind of policy, there would not have been a war in Ukraine. A little push and shove, ages of local preferences butj pretty much more alike than Texas and New York.

As a matter of fact, Kissinger went there to help support the NATO/EU expansion and set up the NAZI Azov folks next to Zelensky's ear.

All this after Putin was rejected when he asked if Russia could just join NATO.

If we had done that, there would have been no divide the Brit Foreign Office could exploit to divide Europe or manipulate China.

 

[One Brow]

The second point, it can end up and in most communist states almost always does end being that the state is put before the people.

I agree, but we were discussing socialism, not communism.

 

[One Brow]

Very true, but the opposite is not.

Then, show us. An actual sign at an alt-right rally supporting Sanders.

As for the details of Bernie's preferred flavor of socialism, there are likely differences but among the major political candidates in the last election, he was closer to what they wanted to see than anyone else was.

Complete and utter horse-hockey, based on deliberate lies of two groups using the same word for different ideas.

Jason Kessler, a long time and very active democrat.

Going back, Kessler himself said this changed in 2013, about four years before Charlottesville.

 

[Red]

Just my honest opinion. I prefer to sit and talk face to face, but all I have is a keyboard and an honest impression….

people in this forum are still arguing against my insistence of the United States being a republic rather than a democracy so I know there is little point into getting in to it but yes the Nazis were actual socialists even if they were not Marxist socialists. Their modern supporters are a good fit with Bernie Sanders.

It seems like you’re trying to create a type of cognitive dissonance, and not really for honest reasons. The “America is not a democracy” narrative was not about the fact we are a republic, but to try to take away any reason people might have for being concerned over 1/6, or to somehow make my right to vote, including for president, despite your elector technicalities, seem like, well, that’s not what I think it is, I’ve been living in a delusion where elections and my role as a citizen in our elections are concerned. But I know when I’m taking part in what I know as democracy in America. You’re just trying to make people’s heads spin. I know we’re a republic, and I know when I take part in a democratic process. And I don’t believe you can change that fact.

Here, you just make my head hurt. The interpretation of socialism you’re using is designed to cause thoughts like “Charlottesville was really extreme left”, because socialism is left. It’s designed to deflect. Deflect from right wing extremism, with a prominent “great replacement” core, and somehow cause minds to blame a political philosophy always associated with the left. I believe both arguments are forms of deflection, regardless of any intrinsic merits. Here, the truth is those banners promote far right mindsets, and the “great replacement” narrative is rightly associated with right leaning media personalities and Republican politicians. And, apparently in this guy’s case, the web forums he frequented.

I think in both cases people are bound to be taken aback, confused, break their stride. That’s a good thing many times, maybe most times, if it gets people to rethink their own beliefs and biases. But I don’t think it really works in either instance here.

As for the group in the Vice piece you linked to earlier, they grumbled on camera about Trump giving his daughter to a Jew but they marched in support of him anyway.

Well, as Mick Jagger once intoned: “You can’t always get what you want….but if you try sometime, you’ll find you get what you need”.
And they got what they needed, in Donald Trump, to feel empowered big time. That’s the trouble with the kind of rhetoric so often used by Trump, or media lowlifes like Tucker Carlson. There will always be people, often lurking and taking it all in, willing to take rhetoric to what they feel is the only logical conclusion.

 

[The Thriller]

Oh weird. Al lying again. Who could have ever foreseen that? Some people just aren’t very good people.

 

[Gameface]

Oh weird. Al lying again. Who could have ever foreseen that? Some people just aren’t very good people.

LOL. Very aggressively twisting the fabric of space time so that he can still advocate for all the same stuff without having to be on the same team with racist murderers.

 

[The Thriller]

LOL. Very aggressively twisting the fabric of space time so that he can still advocate for all the same stuff without having to be on the same team with racist murderers.

Exactly.

He’s just not a person you can take seriously anymore. Like babe, he has his agenda and most of us just sorta ignore whatever nonsense they spout off.

 

[Rubashov]

I agree, but we were discussing socialism, not communism.

I didn't think Americans knew the difference?

 

[The Thriller]

This should be Eye opening for some:

The study, released on Friday by the Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights, a decades-old group that tracks right-wing extremism, found that more than 1 in 5 Republican state legislators in the United States were affiliated with far-right groups. The IREHR (which conducted a similar study with the NAACP in 2010 on racism within the tea party) cross-referenced the personal, campaign and official Facebook profiles of all 7,383 state legislators in the United States during the 2021-22 legislative period with thousands of far-right Facebook groups. The researchers found that 875 legislators — all but three of them Republicans — were members of one or more of 789 far-right Facebook groups…

This idea, expressed by the alleged Buffalo killer (11 of the gunman’s 13 victims were Black), has found support from Stefanik (N.Y.), the No. 3 House Republican. She accused Democrats of “a PERMANENT ELECTION INSURRECTION” in the form of an immigration amnesty plan that would “overthrow our current electorate.”
Variations of this have been heard fromRepublicans such as: Rep. Scott Perry (Pa.), chairman of the House Freedom Caucus (“we’re replacing … native-born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape”); Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin (Democrats “want to remake the demographics of America to ensure ... that they stay in power forever”); Rep. Gaetz of Florida (Carlson “is CORRECT about Replacement Theory”); Vance, the party’s Senate nominee for Ohio (“Biden’s open border is killing Ohioans, with … more Democrat voters pouring into this country”); and Gingrich, former Republican House speaker (“the anti-American left would love to drown traditional, classic Americans … to get rid of the rest of us”).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/16/republicans-far-right-group-statistics/

 

[The Thriller]

This is also very interesting. The same white grievance forces that fought against reconstruction are at work today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/16/replacement-theory-white-supremacy-banish-racist-gop-officials/

 

[Al-O-Meter]

It seems like you’re trying to create a type of cognitive dissonance, and not really for honest reasons.

I’m not spinning the world. That disorienting feeling happens when you spend too much time on a merry-go-round. It is up to you to either take some time to steady yourself, or be like The Thriller and crawl back to the safe merry-go-round and deny the outside world.

With January 6th, there is a lot to be upset over. People were in real danger. Some died. There was someone planting bombs who has never been caught, but cries of “they attempted to steal my vote and I take that personally” is merry-go-round talk.

This Buffalo shooter described himself as an “eco-fascist socialist” and included a meme of Fox News founder Rupert Murdoch being shot in the head. That is real.

I’m open to evidence that he isn’t a younger, dumber, more extreme Richard Spencer. Give me some piece of evidence that you aren’t repeating merry-go-round talking points. Why do you place the self-described eco-fascist socialist Buffalo shooter who dreams of killing the founder of Fox News on the opposite side of the political spectrum from white nationalist Richard Spencer?

 

[fishonjazz]

Putting the welfare of the state above the welfare of people is not a left-wing ideology.

I also dont think that killing off all the non whites and jews is a left wing ideology.



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[The Thriller]

I also dont think that killing off all the non whites and jews is a left wing ideology.



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You’re right. But if you have an agenda and are an immoral person desperate for attention, any amount of lying is justified. We aren’t a democracy, nazis are left wingers, Bernie sanders and AOC are white supremacist nazis, etc etc etc.

 

[fishonjazz]

But I would still have a hard time picturing a Jewish Bernie Sanders joining the marchers in Charlottesville, carrying a torch, and chanting “Jews will not replace us”. I don’t think he would feel at home at all, or regard those gentlemen as his ideological breathren.

Ya Al is off his rocker on this topic.
Dude shoots a bunch of people. Has a manifesto that is pretty much a tucker carlson speech verbatim. Must be a leftist cause leftists are huge tucker fans.


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[fishonjazz]

You’re right. But if you have an agenda and are an immoral person desperate for attention, any amount of lying is justified. We aren’t a democracy, nazis are left wingers, Bernie sanders and AOC are white supremacist nazis, etc etc etc.

Ya i think its finally time to put him on the old ignore list. I always tried to see his point on things and tried to understand but at this point he is just a writer of fiction. Similar to babe but just less insane. Equally fictional though.


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[One Brow]

I didn't think Americans knew the difference?

Largely true.

 

[One Brow]

I’m open to evidence that he isn’t a younger, dumber, more extreme Richard Spencer. Give me some piece of evidence that you aren’t repeating merry-go-round talking points. Why do you place the self-described eco-fascist socialist Buffalo shooter who dreams of killing the founder of Fox News on the opposite side of the political spectrum from white nationalist Richard Spencer?

We're not. I'm quite willing to believe this is a younger, dumber, Spencer. What I don't believe is your con that Spencer is some sort of left-winger.

Richard B. Spencer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spencer wants a white ethno-state, feels Trump was insuffciently right-wing, says women should be trusted to make foreign policy, opposes same-sex marriage, and wants to weaken NATO. Outside of universal health care and opposing the Iraq invasion, I don't see issues that he agrees with left on.

 

[Rubashov]

Largely true.

Subtly and nuance are hardly national strengths...

 

[The Thriller]

Ya i think its finally time to put him on the old ignore list. I always tried to see his point on things and tried to understand but at this point he is just a writer of fiction. Similar to babe but just less insane. Equally fictional though.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

Yep.

There’s no shame in him admitting that he’s wrong. We’ve all been there. It’s not too late to admit that his understanding of this issue wasn’t well thought out and that the info he’s consumed was bad. But that would mean having the humility and character to admit being wrong. Something tells me he doesn’t have that.

Instead, I think we all know he’s going to double down on this. If history is our guide, he’ll even create a separate thread to specifically “prove” that Nazis and white supremacists are left wing ideologies. Why? Proving a point no matter how absurd it might be, is his top priority. It’s not about honest discussion.

Which tbh, is just plain sad to me.