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But this isn’t true. It’s not true that I concluded Spencer was right wing due to his racism. I concluded that in listening to him in speeches like this. Here he refers to the mainstream media as “Leftists and cucks”. At an alt right conference no less. I just would not expect someone who was politically aligned with the Left to speak derisively of Leftists. Imitating a Nazi salute likely played into my concluding he was far right as well. I also know racism can emanate from any race, not just whites. You do not know me.
I know you pretty well. Be honest. Did you actually listen to that speech or did you find a safe source like The Atlantic who would reaffirm what you already believe and spoon feed you bits out of context to show you how correct you were? There was nothing in any of those clips that indicated how Richard Spencer thinks about fiscal policy, or a woman's right to choose, or social safety nets, or nearly any topic that differentiates right from left.

If you want to know where Richard Spencer, the Alt-Right, and the eco-fascist socialists who kill people in Buffalo stand on the political spectrum, here it is in his own words during an unedited Q&A split into 3 parts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlOv3BXSyJM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhicdpt9Q0U


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSefByrjXzY


If you wanted the political compass stuff, pay particular attention to part 2 where you get to hear:
  • @3:25 – Support for environmentalism and anger at climate change denial
  • @3:45 – Wants massive expansion of public transportation
  • @4:25 – Wants total student loan forgiveness
  • @5:05 – Wants Medicare-4-All
All of this was from back when he was supporting Trump, just a handful of months after the speech the Atlantic cut up to feed you. But Red, I know you wont watch any of it because it is not safe. It won't reaffirm your preheld beliefs. Quite the opposite. You'll find out your trusted sources maybe didn't deserve as much trust as you gave them. Richard Spencer is a POS racist but he isn't a right wing POS racist even if he did vote for Trump in one election before returning to form and voting straight democrat. You won't watch it and you won't change your opinion, and I know that because I do know you pretty well.
 
I know you pretty well. Be honest. Did you actually listen to that speech or did you find a safe source like The Atlantic who would reaffirm what you already believe and spoon feed you bits out of context to show you how correct you were? There was nothing in any of those clips that indicated how Richard Spencer thinks about fiscal policy, or a woman's right to choose, or social safety nets, or nearly any topic that differentiates right from left.

If you want to know where Richard Spencer, the Alt-Right, and the eco-fascist socialists who kill people in Buffalo stand on the political spectrum, here it is in his own words during an unedited Q&A split into 3 parts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlOv3BXSyJM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhicdpt9Q0U


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSefByrjXzY


If you wanted the political compass stuff, pay particular attention to part 2 where you get to hear:
  • @3:25 – Support for environmentalism and anger at climate change denial
  • @3:45 – Wants massive expansion of public transportation
  • @4:25 – Wants total student loan forgiveness
  • @5:05 – Wants Medicare-4-All
All of this was from back when he was supporting Trump, just a handful of months after the speech the Atlantic cut up to feed you. But Red, I know you wont watch any of it because it is not safe. It won't reaffirm your preheld beliefs. Quite the opposite. You'll find out your trusted sources maybe didn't deserve as much trust as you gave them. Richard Spencer is a POS racist but he isn't a right wing POS racist even if he did vote for Trump in one election before returning to form and voting straight democrat. You won't watch it and you won't change your opinion, and I know that because I do know you pretty well.

I recall that speech at the time. I thought there was a transcript, but I could not find it last night, so just went with that snippet.

But, no, you don’t know me or my history at all. You don’t know a thing about Irish street gangs, and white neighborhoods abutting black neighborhoods, nothing about the race riots in Providence, nothing about my own grappling with racism in my youth. There are still streets I would never walk down in Providence at night. Because they are black neighborhoods, and I’m not stupid or eager to take risks. I in fact wonder at times how racist am I in simply avoiding black neighborhoods. Most of those Irish friends are still likely Democratic supporters, but how one was raised, and the experiences of growing up in certain neighborhoods likely still conditions their views of race. Me, I just want everyone to get along, I want all the hate and anger to stop.

Nor have I ever demonized half the people in this country, as you also stated is taking place in this thread. When Joe Bagadonuts suggested I start a thread discussing differences between liberals and conservatives that looked at possible biological differences in the brain, I did, but few were interested at the time, and the thread went nowhere as I recall. But I did that because I thought it was very important to at least try to bridge the gap, and that meant looking anywhere where there might exist insights that would help explain why conservatives felt as they did, why liberals felt as they did. I still believe there is insight in looking at such studies. Conservatives more attune to threats, liberals more comfortable with change. I am not the one way, inflexible ideologue you think I am. My closest friend is a Trump supporter. My wife leans very strongly right. He’s still my friend, and I would never stop loving my wife, despite our extreme political differences. It hurts at times, and all I want for my country is the ability to compromise again, to talk again, to tamp down the culture wars that are tearing us apart. I am not someone standing on one side of our political divide, demonizing and full of hate for the other side.

Instead, I hate Donald Trump. I hated his divisive speech. I hated the fact he was the first president in my lifetime who refused to reach out to all those millions of Americans who did not vote for him, and make some effort, any effort, to act like a president for all Americans. I hated him because of his inconceivable divisive stances, when it was the polar opposite we needed. And of course I would hate to see a repeat of all that.

But I don’t hate many of his followers, nor am I an urban liberal hating all the rural reactionary hicks. I put it that way, but I don’t really feel that is an appropriate way to see myself or rural America. I spent my summers in my preteen youth living among Swamp Yankees still living in the 19th century, would not trade those memories for the world. I got to know both urban and rural America. I just recognize, having been a student of American history for my whole life, that our culture wars pivot on an urban/rural fulcrum, something that in fact has been there since colonial times. And understanding that, like understanding the differences in the brains of liberals and conservatives, can help illuminate how we got to a very ugly and dangerous place in our nation’s history. I want to understand all of this better. Because I am not a leftist ideologue, determined to demonize and hate those who differ from me politically or culturally.

You don’t know me. You don’t know that I examine my own beliefs all the time. I listen to my friend, and my wife, together, asking me, astonishment in their voices, why in the world do I believe what I believe. I feel I am smack dab in the middle of the tensions, the forces rendering our social fabric, and I struggle to understand how to find a way forward, for myself, my friends and family, my country.

My own experiences, esp. right now, at this time in my life, feels like a great test for me. You see, I believe life is a morality play. I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. I think I should be grateful I am being so tested, with someone with strongly held beliefs seemingly the opposite of mine living with me. I feel this is a test and love is far stronger than hate. It’s very painful in fact, but this is a morality play, and I want to do the right thing. Anger is a poison, in one’s personal life, and in the body politic. I still have work to do in that area, the anger comes way too easy at times. You think I am an inflexible ideologue on the far left. Well, yeah, on most things and issues I do lean that way. But I would embrace compromise in our body politic in a heartbeat, because politics should be the art of compromise. And if, as I believe, we are spiritual beings on a human journey, we have a responsibility to learn this, no matter how long it takes. History would certainly suggest my belief is delusional and foolish to the extreme, but it is my choice to act as if that belief is 100% true. I try. I fail daily, but I try.

You think I am an ideologue, yet the very reason I stated that when difficulties communicating reach this level, I feel I wish I could sit down with someone like you, is to do away with impressions born of anonymous Internet forums. I am in fact a very open person, and no, you really do not know me….
 
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I recall that speech at the time. I thought there was a transcript, but I could not find it last night, so just went with that snippet.

But, no, you don’t know me or my history at all. You don’t know a thing about Irish street gangs, and white neighborhoods abutting black neighborhoods, nothing about the race riots in Providence, nothing about my own grappling with racism in my youth. There are still streets I would never walk down in Providence at night. Because they are black neighborhoods, and I’m not stupid or eager to take risks. I in fact wonder at times how racist am I in simply avoiding black neighborhoods. Most of those Irish friends are still likely Democratic supporters, but how one was raised, and the experiences of growing up in certain neighborhoods likely still conditions their views of race. Me, I just want everyone to get along, I want all the hate and anger to stop.

Nor have I ever demonized half the people in this country, as you also stated is taking place in this thread. When Joe Bagadonuts suggested I start a thread discussing differences between liberals and conservatives that looked at possible biological differences in the brain, I did, but few were interested at the time, and the thread went nowhere as I recall. But I did that because I thought it was very important to at least try to bridge the gap, and that meant looking anywhere where there might exist insights that would help explain why conservatives felt as they did, why liberals felt as they did. I still believe there is insight in looking at such studies. Conservatives more attune to threats, liberals more comfortable with change. I am not the one way, inflexible ideologue you think I am. My closest friend is a Trump supporter. My wife leans strongly right. He’s still my friend, and I would never stop loving my wife, despite our extreme political differences. It hurts at times, and all I want for my country is the ability to compromise again, to talk again, to tamp down the culture wars that are tearing us apart. I am not someone standing on one side of our political divide, demonizing and full of hate for the other side.

Instead, I hate Donald Trump. I hated his divisive speech. I hated the fact he was the first president in my lifetime who refused to reach out to all those millions of Americans who did not vote for him, and make some effort, any effort, to act like a president for all Americans. I hated him because of his inconceivable divisive stances, when it was the polar opposite we needed. And of course I would hate to see a repeat of all that.

You don’t know me. You don’t know that I examine my own beliefs all the time. I listen to my friend, and my wife, together, asking me, astonishment in their voices, why in the world do I believe what I believe. I feel I am smack dab in the middle of the tensions, the forces rendering our social fabric, and I struggle to understand how to find a way forward, for myself, my friends and family, my country. My own experiences, esp. right now, at this time in my life, feels like a great test for me. You see, I believe life is a morality play. I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. I think I should be grateful I am being so tested, with someone with strongly held beliefs seemingly the opposite of mine living with me. I feel this is a test and love is far stronger than hate. That anger is a poison, in one’s personal,life, and in the body politic. You think I am an inflexible ideologue on the far left. Well, yeah, on most things I things and issues I do lean that way. But I would embrace compromise in our body politic, because politics should be the art of compromise.

You think I am an ideologue, yet the very reason I stated that when difficulties communicating reach this level, I feel I wish I could sit down with someone like you to do away with impressions born of anonymous Internet forums. I am in fact a very open person, and no, you really do not know me….
You’re arguing with someone who has no interest in who you are or what you stand for. He doesn’t want to engage in honest debate. He lies incessantly to be contrarian. He seeks out and receives negative attention. You can write to whoever you want but imo we’d all be better off if we ignored these trolls. They’d go bother other boards and social media groups if they weren’t given the attention here.
 
If you wanted the political compass stuff, pay particular attention to part 2 where you get to hear:
  • @3:25 – Support for environmentalism and anger at climate change denial
No longer a left-wing position.

  • @3:45 – Wants massive expansion of public transportation

Democrats wanted a split of 80 percent for highways and 20 percent for transit. In the end, they got 19 percent for transit, said Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del.
Massive expansion is not a Democratic priority.

  • @4:25 – Wants total student loan forgiveness
  • @5:05 – Wants Medicare-4-All
These are left-wing.

Meanwhile, Spencer also supports pulling out of NATO, opposes gay marriage, opposes women working, etc. All much further to the right than many Republicans.

No one is believing your cherry-picked nonsense.
 
You’re arguing with someone who has no interest in who you are or what you stand for. He doesn’t want to engage in honest debate. He lies incessantly to be contrarian. He seeks out and receives negative attention. You can write to whoever you want but imo we’d all be better off if we ignored these trolls. They’d go bother other boards and social media groups if they weren’t given the attention here.

I have all the respect in the world for the depth of understanding of American history that your posts have consistently demonstrated. And we think alike in many respects. I don’t feel quite the same way you feel toward this poster, though. Maybe you are right, but I’m not convinced he does not believe much of what he states, though he may not see his own bias with much clarity. Knowing this about myself is the reason I spend as much time as I do dwelling on, and considering, my own beliefs and biases. Obviously, that does not necessarily get reflected in my own posts at times. But it’s there every day. Every single day.

I did not appreciate the presumptuous and arrogant attitude he adopted in his last reply to me. At least that’s how I read it. I don’t expect him to give a **** about me or my life, but I owed it to myself to counter his presumptuous conclusions. I do not know the man, and he does not know me. But, knowing myself, I was not in the mood to let his last post to me sit there without standing up for myself.
 
You think I am an ideologue
do not think you an ideologue. I think you are often uncritical of information you take in and tend to let the first word you read on a thing be the foundation you build up from. It is very much in character for you to have a conservative wife and friends, and not have that move the way you see things. The foundation is the foundation and that is the way it is.

The Thriller is the ideologue. He’s of mediocre intelligence but thinks himself to be might brighter than he is. He’ll say a thing but if you press him you’ll find often that there is nothing behind it, no deeper understanding and there is no way he will think my observation is correct. The Thriller is the walking embodiment of Dunning-Kruger.

One Brow is probably the smartest person on the board but he’s either unemployed or under-employed. He uses the back-and-forth to keep his smart brain occupied. OB, you need to go get a better job. I’d help you if I could brother.

Gameface is also extremely smart. He’s smart and perceptive enough to recognize things in himself that he is not at peace with, at least not yet.

LogGrad spent his formative years in a place that was so homogenous I sometimes wonder if he grew up in a clone factory. He sees the entire world isn’t where he grew up but it still exerts a heavy influence in how he thinks the world works.

FishOnJazz is a good family man. Maybe he was once more but his wife has very much tamed it out of him.

Rubashov. With him, I'm thinking he leans socialist. Just a hunch.
I just wish they'd pick up bats and beat them to death like they deserve.
 
I have all the respect in the world for the depth of understanding of American history that your posts have consistently demonstrated. And we think alike in many respects. I don’t feel quite the same way you feel toward this poster, though. Maybe you are right, but I’m not convinced he does not believe much of what he states, though he may not see his own bias with much clarity. Knowing this about myself is the reason I spend as much time as I do dwelling on, and considering, my own beliefs and biases. Obviously, that does not necessarily get reflected in my own posts at times. But it’s there every day. Every single day.

I did not appreciate the presumptuous and arrogant attitude he adopted in his last reply to me. At least that’s how I read it. I don’t expect him to give a **** about me or my life, but I owed it to myself to counter his presumptuous conclusions. I do not know the man, and he does not know me. But, knowing myself, I was not in the mood to let his last post to me sit there without standing up for myself.
That’s fine and I don’t blame you for responding. There’s only so many personal attacks one can take. But even in this post you indicate two things:

1) you don’t believe this poster believes in the nonsense he spouts.
2) he’s posting merely to illicit an emotional response from you.

What do we call posters like that? Trolls. Al is nothing more than a troll.
 
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One Brow is probably the smartest person on the board but he’s either unemployed or under-employed. He uses the back-and-forth to keep his smart brain occupied. OB, you need to go get a better job. I’d help you if I could brother.
I like being a little under-employed. It gives me time for my second job (teaching math at night). I appreciate the sentiment, though.
 
do not think you an ideologue. I think you are often uncritical of information you take in and tend to let the first word you read on a thing be the foundation you build up from. It is very much in character for you to have a conservative wife and friends, and not have that move the way you see things. The foundation is the foundation and that is the way it is.

The Thriller is the ideologue. He’s of mediocre intelligence but thinks himself to be might brighter than he is. He’ll say a thing but if you press him you’ll find often that there is nothing behind it, no deeper understanding and there is no way he will think my observation is correct. The Thriller is the walking embodiment of Dunning-Kruger.

One Brow is probably the smartest person on the board but he’s either unemployed or under-employed. He uses the back-and-forth to keep his smart brain occupied. OB, you need to go get a better job. I’d help you if I could brother.

Gameface is also extremely smart. He’s smart and perceptive enough to recognize things in himself that he is not at peace with, at least not yet.

LogGrad spent his formative years in a place that was so homogenous I sometimes wonder if he grew up in a clone factory. He sees the entire world isn’t where he grew up but it still exerts a heavy influence in how he thinks the world works.

FishOnJazz is a good family man. Maybe he was once more but his wife has very much tamed it out of him.

Rubashov. With him, I'm thinking he leans socialist. Just a hunch.
Nailed it
 
when on earth is the US ever going to do something about the fact you have a zillion guns mixed in with a whole bunch of weird mentally unwell people ??
 
btw Rubashov is clearly the most intelligent and well read person on this board and it isn't close. And i'm not just saying that bc i live in the same city and he might kneecap me ..
 
when on earth is the US ever going to do something about the fact you have a zillion guns mixed in with a whole bunch of weird mentally unwell people ??
We care less about children (except the unborn) than we do about guns. That was evident after Sandy Hook when nothing changed. We have chosen to be a gun society with all its evils. It's who we are.

Sent from my SM-A426U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
14 dead kids today and a teacher at a school shooting in Texas.

I'm sick of this ****. The true terrorists of this country live among us.
19 dead kids now.

The shooter was engaged by law enforcement but they couldn’t take him out because he had body armor on. Just like the Buffalo shooter.
 

This man doesn’t use capitalization or punctuation. He has now relinquished his most intelligent poster, but it was a stunning run.

Aside from that, common sense enhanced background checks continue to labor. In addition, stop talking about mental illness needing to be addressed while you punt on Medicare for All aimlessly forever.

Our politicians are gutless. We won’t end gun violence, we’re too far gone, but you can still reduce it.
 
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