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Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

Obstruction, which appears to have happened, is not a concern. The POTUS can't obstruct justice, after all. The President IS the law.
 
If the evidence rises to the level that they would have prosecuted Hillary for it, I want them to prosecute Trump for it.
That doesn't answer my question. Would collusion by an aide or a family member cause it to rise to a something burger for you?
 
Nixon would agree with you.

Most experts would disagree.
Well I don't agree with me. This place we are now, where Trump apologists seem to realize Trump obstructed justice have done the necessary mental gymnastics to make that okay. They are 100% fine with the fact that our President obstructed justice.

Joe bagoftaunts called me out for my claim that I've voted for more GOP Presidential candidates than Dems when I expressed enthusiasm for the possibility there might be a "blue wave" this mid-term. It has nothing to do with my own political leanings and everything to do with a desire to see Trump held accountable. Trump is, more than anything else (by a lot), a ****ing liar. He has no honor, no dignity, no sense of duty to truth or reason. He is absolutely despicable. Every day it is one more misrepresentation, one more reversal without acknowledgement, one more lie that there is no way he could possibly believe.
 
Well I don't agree with me. This place we are now, where Trump apologists seem to realize Trump obstructed justice have done the necessary mental gymnastics to make that okay. They are 100% fine with the fact that our President obstructed justice.

Joe bagoftaunts called me out for my claim that I've voted for more GOP Presidential candidates than Dems when I expressed enthusiasm for the possibility there might be a "blue wave" this mid-term. It has nothing to do with my own political leanings and everything to do with a desire to see Trump held accountable. Trump is, more than anything else (by a lot), a ****ing liar. He has no honor, no dignity, no sense of duty to truth or reason. He is absolutely despicable. Every day it is one more misrepresentation, one more reversal without acknowledgement, one more lie that there is no way he could possibly believe.

There’s admittedly a grey area too among experts. What qualifies as obstruction of justice for the president? And I agree certainly the republicans controlled congress as it stands right now woust vote to impeach. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and republicans would kiss his butt.
 
That doesn't answer my question. Would collusion by an aide or a family member cause it to rise to a something burger for you?
If Trump knew about it I would consider it a crime by Trump. If some supporter did something he was unaware of then I don't see how you could blame him for it.

My real answer is that what I see so far is a nothing burger. The moment Hillary lost to Trump the left had to find a reason that it happened, and they decided the explanation must be collusion. They have gone all in on this opinion, despite what seems so far to be a severe shortage of evidence. Yeah, I know that someone might have met with a Russian here or there. It happened in both campaigns. Nothing that I've seen freaks me out about what Trump did in regard to the Russians. If he did the sorts of things his detractors are so sure he must have done then I would be very concerned. So far, though, it's speculation, overreaction to speculation, and lunacy. I have believed from the very beginning that the Trump haters hurt their cause by going crazy about the things they think he might do, or believe he has probably done, rather than focusing on the things they actually know that he did. I'm certain that their unhinged hate has increased the amount of support he gets from his base.
 
The possibility that Russia was helping the Trump campaign emerged as a subject of discussion among the American electorate well before Trump won the 2016 election, and at a time when most people still assumed Clinton would be the 45th president. And the possibility that the Trump campaign might have been conspiring, or colluding with the Russians in those efforts, had become a focus of our intelligence community prior to the November election. When it was largely assumed Clinton would win, the possibility that Russia was helping Trump had already emerged as a discussion on Jazzfanz:

Ihttps://jazzfanz.com/threads/is-russia-helping-trump.52108/

I don't see the fact that Democrats believed Russia and the Trump campaign colluded as simply a Democrat excuse when the question of possible collusion had been there long before the election. Further, the fact that Trump told Lester Holt "the Russia thing" was on his mind when he fired Comey, and that Trump then told 2 top Russian officials in the Oval Office that he had rid himself of "the Russia thing" naturally raised questions regarding what Trump might have been hiding, and led directly to a Special Council investigation into the 2016 election. That investigation was not created by Democrats latching onto an excuse that they lost the election due to collusion. Trump himself and his actions and statements after the election led to investigating the question of colluding. Trump largely had only himself to blame. With our intelligence community concluding Russia interfered with the 2016 election in Trump's favor, and Trump slamming the intelligence community at the same time, and openly doubting their conclusions, it was only natural, not Democratic excuse-making, that raised suspicions.

Now, Bloomberg is citing an unnamed source that Mueller wants to decide on the obstruction of justice aspect of his probe as soon as possible, and at that point wrap up the collusion aspect by the Fall of 2018.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...zero-in-on-trump-russia-collusion-allegations

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/report-mueller-collusion-results-by-fall.html

One unnamed source is not something to hang one's hat on, and even if the Bloomberg report is accurate, I would not expect a report on the collusion aspect to be released close to the mid term election.
 
The moment Hillary lost to Trump the left had to find a reason that it happened, and they decided the explanation must be collusion.
Actually there were people suspecting trump and his people of collusion before Hillary lost to trump.
 
If Trump knew about it I would consider it a crime by Trump. If some supporter did something he was unaware of then I don't see how you could blame him for it.

That still doesn't answer my question, unless you are saying it is a "something burger" only if crimes are found to be committed by Trump. Is that what you are saying?
 
That still doesn't answer my question, unless you are saying it is a "something burger" only if crimes are found to be committed by Trump. Is that what you are saying?
For Trump, yes. You think you can prosecute him for crimes that he had no involvement in? Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard of anyone suggesting that he might have committed crimes that he played no role in (not even knowledge of).

I believe that the answer to why Trump won is in this book... Strike that. It's on this book. You don't even need to open the front cover. The question and then the answer are staring you in the face in big bold letters.

51ed5DTTTNL._AC_UL160_.jpg


The primary reason that Trump won is that he was facing a candidate who was even worse than him. Pretty stunning.

BTW, I listened to this book. It is both terrible and incredibly revealing. She does not get it.
 
The primary reason that Trump won is that he was facing a candidate who was even worse than him. Pretty stunning.

I disagree. I think the main reason he won is that no one thought he had a chance and was not a threat to win. I think many people either didn’t vote at all or voted for an independent. I think if we could go back and re do the election today, knowing what we know now, Hillary would win quite easily. Especially if we were somehow able to keep Russia out of it.... Russia is another strong candidate for the main reason trump “won” (even though he got less total votes than Hillary anyway. Which reminds me. Another main reason trump won was the fact that we a stupid and old fashioned way of counting the votes with the electoral college)
 
FWIW: Russian State TV takes it as a given that Russia helped Trump win and that Trump "owes" Russia whatever it wants now.
 
For Trump, yes. You think you can prosecute him for crimes that he had no involvement in? Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard of anyone suggesting that he might have committed crimes that he played no role in (not even knowledge of).

I really don't get your last two sentences. Why do you think I think that? Where did I suggest that?

What I find also perplexing is how you apparently think that there's nothing worth investigating if Trump himself did not play a role.

FWIW, I think Trump did play a role, in the cover up at least, but possibly also in collusion. However I'm confident to wait to see what facts are found and proven by the special prosecutor.
 
I really don't get your last two sentences. Why do you think I think that? Where did I suggest that?

What I find also perplexing is how you apparently think that there's nothing worth investigating if Trump himself did not play a role.

FWIW, I think Trump did play a role, in the cover up at least, but possibly also in collusion. However I'm confident to wait to see what facts are found and proven by the special prosecutor.
To me the whole nothing burger discussion has been about Trump's involvement in the supposed collusion. Apparently that's not the case for you. That's the genesis for my impression that you were suggesting that Trump might bear responsibility for something he knew nothing about.

I do think there may be something worth investigating no matter what Trump's role was and I hope that the investigators are a lot more level-headed than the media regarding this. I'm very turned off by the anti-Trump crowd's rampant speculation over every scrap of "info" that comes out. They come off, to me, as a slobbering band of unhinged lunatics. They don't really seem to care what happened. They only care that somehow something takes down Trump.
 
I disagree. I think the main reason he won is that no one thought he had a chance and was not a threat to win. I think many people either didn’t vote at all or voted for an independent. I think if we could go back and re do the election today, knowing what we know now, Hillary would win quite easily. Especially if we were somehow able to keep Russia out of it.... Russia is another strong candidate for the main reason trump “won” (even though he got less total votes than Hillary anyway. Which reminds me. Another main reason trump won was the fact that we a stupid and old fashioned way of counting the votes with the electoral college)
You give Russia a lot more credit than I ever have. I believe the reason Trump won is that there are a lot of people in America who are very turned off by the Democrat agenda and methods, but they do not enjoy being shamed (libs try to turn everything into a race issue, for example) so they keep their opinions quiet until they are in the voting booth. I am more vocal about my feelings in this regard than a lot of people, but I have had many, many conversations with people who share my sentiments.

I guess we will find out whether I am more correct or if you are after the mid-terms. If the Dems can't take back a lot of ground in these elections it's got to be a huge concern for them.
 
So anyway, and FWIW, Michael Cohen is no longer saying he will take a bullet for Trump.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mic...try-president-trump-loyalty/story?id=56304585

"But Cohen did not praise the president during our conversation -- and pointedly disagreed with Trump’s criticism of the federal investigations.

When I asked Cohen directly what he would do if prosecutors forced him to choose between protecting the president and protecting his family, he said his family is “my first priority.”

Cohen added: “Once I understand what charges might be filed against me, if any at all, I will defer to my new counsel, Guy Petrillo, for guidance.”

But when I pointed out to Cohen that he wasn’t repeating past vows to “take a bullet” and “do anything” to protect the president, the longtime Trump loyalist left little doubt about where he stands now, saying simply: “To be crystal clear, my wife, my daughter and my son, and this country have my first loyalty.”
 
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