Donald is about to go through some things...
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fishonjazz
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Previously Secret Memo Laid Out Strategy for Trump to Overturn Biden’s Win
A lawyer allied with President Donald Trump first laid out a plot to use false slates of electors to subvert the 2020 election in a previously unknown internal campaign memo that prosecutors are portraying as a crucial link in how the Trump team’s efforts evolved into a criminal conspiracy. The...
The memo had been a missing piece in the public record of how Trump’s allies developed their strategy to overturn Biden’s victory. In mid-December, the false Trump electors could go through the motions of voting as if they had the authority to do so. Then, on Jan. 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence could unilaterally count those slates of votes, rather than the official and certified ones for Joe Biden.
“I recognize that what I suggest is a bold, controversial strategy, and that there are many reasons why it might not end up being executed on Jan. 6,” Chesebro wrote. “But as long as it is one possible option, to preserve it as a possibility it is important that the Trump-Pence electors cast their electoral votes on Dec. 14.”
Three days later, Chesebro drew up specific instructions to create fraudulent electors in multiple states — in another memo whose existence, along with the one in November, was first reported by the Times last year. The House committee investigating the Jan. 6 riot also cited them in its December report, but it apparently did not learn of the Dec. 6 memo.
“I believe that what can be achieved on Jan. 6 is not simply to keep Biden below 270 electoral votes,” Chesebro wrote in the newly disclosed memo. “It seems feasible that the vote count can be conducted so that at no point will Trump be behind in the electoral vote count unless and until Biden can obtain a favorable decision from the Supreme Court upholding the Electoral Count Act as constitutional, or otherwise recognizing the power of Congress (and not the president of the Senate) to count the votes.”
The false electors scheme was perhaps the most sprawling of Trump’s various efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. It involved lawyers working on his campaign’s behalf across seven states, dozens of electors willing to claim that Trump — not Biden — had won their states, and open resistance from some of those potential electors that the plan could be illegal or even “appear treasonous.” In the end, it became the cornerstone of the indictment against Trump.
While another lawyer — John Eastman, described as Co-Conspirator 2 in the indictment — became a key figure who championed the plan and worked more directly with Trump on it, Chesebro was an architect of it. He was first enlisted by the Trump campaign in Wisconsin to help with a legal challenge to the results there
But he did not attach his Dec. 6 memo to those messages, which laid out a more audacious idea: having Pence take “the position that it is his constitutional power and duty, alone, as president of the Senate, to both open and count the votes.” That is, he could resolve the dispute over which slate was valid by counting the alternate electors for Trump even if Biden remained the certified winner of their states.
The indictment also accuses Trump and his unindicted co-conspirators of acting with deception in recruiting some of the fraudulent electors. That included telling some of them that their votes for Trump would be used only if a court ruling handed victory in their state to Trump.
The Dec. 6 memo dovetails with that approach. Chesebro wrote that Pence could count purported Trump electors from a state as long as there was a lawsuit pending challenging Biden’s declared victory there. But he also proposed telling the public that the Trump electors were meeting Dec. 14 merely as a precaution in case “the courts (or state legislatures) were to later conclude that Trump actually won the state.”
Al-O-Meter
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Exacxtly!!! ...And if you were being honest, who was pushing those things? The government and their allies in the main stream media.
It is exactly like QAnon where there were a tiny collection of nuts who actually believed it and the existence of those ideas was amplified a hundred fold by left-leaning outlets. Nearly all mentions of QAnon were from those who styled themselves as in opposition to QAnon. That tactic goes back as far as we have history as nearly all mentions of the devil were from those who styled themselves as in opposition to the devil, and in that same vein were all the viral ideas you mention above. If you want to be upset that those ideas gained mind share then blame the amplifiers who did the most to put those ideas into public view.
fishonjazz
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This thread is about trump not covid. There are covid threads in existence already.
Red
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I am being honest, and I don’t understand how you come up with this interpretation. It doesn’t matter, though. I don’t have to understand why you believe such a thing.
fishonjazz
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Just another example of trump being treated unfairly : https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-veteran-fbi-agent-told-201900907.html
A veteran FBI counterintelligence agent says his supervisor told him to stop investigating Rudy Giuliani and to cut off contact with any sources who reported on corruption by associates of former President Donald Trump, according to a whistleblower complaint obtained by Insider.
The agent, who served 14 years as a special agent for the bureau, including a long stint in Russia-focussed counterintelligence, claimed in a 22-page statement that his bosses interfered with his work in "a highly suspicious suppression of investigations and intelligence-gathering" aimed at protecting "certain politically active figures and possibly also FBI agents" who were connected to Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.
Those figures, the statement claims, explicitly included "anyone in the White House and any former or current associates of President Trump."
The whistleblower told Insider that he was finally ordered to stop investigating Giuliani and the rest of the Trump White House in August 2022, after months of what he said were persistent efforts to frustrate his work, at a meeting with three FBI supervisors at a bureau field office. Insider was able to support the agent's account of the meeting with a second source who had knowledge of what took place.
As one of the bureau's few Russian-speaking counterintelligence specialists, he maintained a network of overseas sources that had been utilized by agents across the country to investigate everything from money laundering to political corruption, his statement said. He said his work had been recognized with eight consecutive years of "excellent" or "outstanding" performance appraisal reports running from 2010 to 2018, and he had been tapped to help verify information obtained by investigators working for Robert Mueller during his time as special counsel.
But in the August 2022 meeting, he was called onto the carpet to discuss "performance issues and concerns" and was given suggestions for how to improve, the agent's account provided to lawmakers said. The directions he received included a strict prohibition on filing intelligence reports relating to Giuliani or any other Trump associate.
In one case, the statement said, the agent developed information from confidential informants that Giuliani had done paid work for Pavel Fuks, a Ukrainian oligarch and "asset of the Russian intelligence services." (That charge was previously reported by Rolling Stone.) The whistleblower also said he looked into claims that Giuliani had fraudulently raised money from investors to produce a never completed film about Joe Biden in the months before the 2020 election.
The agent's reporting on Giuliani wasn't received well in the bureau's New York field office, his statement said. "In the midst of my reporting involving Giuliani, which had previously been identified by my supervisor as 'high impact,' my management told me they received a call from a supervisor in NYFO, who they did not identify," the statement says. "This supervisor had taken issue with my reporting."
The agent said months before he was told to stop looking at Giuliani and the rest of Trump's circle, he met with the same high-ranking supervisor to pass on information he had received from his confidential sources about Hunter Biden and his ties to Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that had paid Hunter Biden $83,333 a month to sit on its board. "My supervisors were delighted that I had collected this information about Burisma," the agent wrote in his statement.
But the agent said when he tried to talk about what their sources had to say about Giuliani, his boss's reaction was very different. The supervisor "forcefully interrupted" him and ended his presentation, he wrote.
Even before the emergence of this new whistleblower, there had been ample evidence of individual FBI agents with pro-Trump partisan sympathies. Jared Wise, an FBI supervisor who left the bureau in 2017, now stands accused of joining the insurrectionists on January 6, 2021, breaking into the Capitol, and shouting, "kill 'em! Kill 'em!" at rioters as they attacked the Capitol Police line.
Further up the chain of command, bureau leadership — perhaps intimidated by Trump's "deep state" rhetoric and his treatment of former senior FBI personnel such as James Comey and Peter Strzok — has resisted investigating the former president. A Washington Post investigation found that more than a year passed before the bureau formally opened a probe into connections between the Trump White House and the January 6 violence. Other reporting by the Post showed that senior FBI officials attempted to push back on plans by Justice Department prosecutors to search Mar-a-Lago without Trump's permission. Some FBI agents were reportedly satisfied by an assertion made by Trump's legal team that he'd turned over all his classified documents, and wanted to close the Mar-a-Lago government records investigation down.
A veteran FBI counterintelligence agent says his supervisor told him to stop investigating Rudy Giuliani and to cut off contact with any sources who reported on corruption by associates of former President Donald Trump, according to a whistleblower complaint obtained by Insider.
The agent, who served 14 years as a special agent for the bureau, including a long stint in Russia-focussed counterintelligence, claimed in a 22-page statement that his bosses interfered with his work in "a highly suspicious suppression of investigations and intelligence-gathering" aimed at protecting "certain politically active figures and possibly also FBI agents" who were connected to Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.
Those figures, the statement claims, explicitly included "anyone in the White House and any former or current associates of President Trump."
The whistleblower told Insider that he was finally ordered to stop investigating Giuliani and the rest of the Trump White House in August 2022, after months of what he said were persistent efforts to frustrate his work, at a meeting with three FBI supervisors at a bureau field office. Insider was able to support the agent's account of the meeting with a second source who had knowledge of what took place.
As one of the bureau's few Russian-speaking counterintelligence specialists, he maintained a network of overseas sources that had been utilized by agents across the country to investigate everything from money laundering to political corruption, his statement said. He said his work had been recognized with eight consecutive years of "excellent" or "outstanding" performance appraisal reports running from 2010 to 2018, and he had been tapped to help verify information obtained by investigators working for Robert Mueller during his time as special counsel.
But in the August 2022 meeting, he was called onto the carpet to discuss "performance issues and concerns" and was given suggestions for how to improve, the agent's account provided to lawmakers said. The directions he received included a strict prohibition on filing intelligence reports relating to Giuliani or any other Trump associate.
In one case, the statement said, the agent developed information from confidential informants that Giuliani had done paid work for Pavel Fuks, a Ukrainian oligarch and "asset of the Russian intelligence services." (That charge was previously reported by Rolling Stone.) The whistleblower also said he looked into claims that Giuliani had fraudulently raised money from investors to produce a never completed film about Joe Biden in the months before the 2020 election.
The agent's reporting on Giuliani wasn't received well in the bureau's New York field office, his statement said. "In the midst of my reporting involving Giuliani, which had previously been identified by my supervisor as 'high impact,' my management told me they received a call from a supervisor in NYFO, who they did not identify," the statement says. "This supervisor had taken issue with my reporting."
The agent said months before he was told to stop looking at Giuliani and the rest of Trump's circle, he met with the same high-ranking supervisor to pass on information he had received from his confidential sources about Hunter Biden and his ties to Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that had paid Hunter Biden $83,333 a month to sit on its board. "My supervisors were delighted that I had collected this information about Burisma," the agent wrote in his statement.
But the agent said when he tried to talk about what their sources had to say about Giuliani, his boss's reaction was very different. The supervisor "forcefully interrupted" him and ended his presentation, he wrote.
Even before the emergence of this new whistleblower, there had been ample evidence of individual FBI agents with pro-Trump partisan sympathies. Jared Wise, an FBI supervisor who left the bureau in 2017, now stands accused of joining the insurrectionists on January 6, 2021, breaking into the Capitol, and shouting, "kill 'em! Kill 'em!" at rioters as they attacked the Capitol Police line.
Further up the chain of command, bureau leadership — perhaps intimidated by Trump's "deep state" rhetoric and his treatment of former senior FBI personnel such as James Comey and Peter Strzok — has resisted investigating the former president. A Washington Post investigation found that more than a year passed before the bureau formally opened a probe into connections between the Trump White House and the January 6 violence. Other reporting by the Post showed that senior FBI officials attempted to push back on plans by Justice Department prosecutors to search Mar-a-Lago without Trump's permission. Some FBI agents were reportedly satisfied by an assertion made by Trump's legal team that he'd turned over all his classified documents, and wanted to close the Mar-a-Lago government records investigation down.
Red
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Yes, always a kind word…
“No way I can get a fair trial, or even close to a fair trial, in Washington, D.C.,” the 77-year-old Florida man who summers in New Jersey said last week. “There are many reasons for this, but just one is that I am calling for a federal takeover of this filthy and crime ridden embarrassment to our nation.”
Al-O-Meter
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I come by this interpretation by looking at the numbers. I gave QAnon as an example, and this is a thing you can verify for yourself right here on JazzFanz by using the search function.
The #1 poster of QAnon related content on JF is The Thrller, and you are in the #2 spot. I feel pretty safe is saying that both you and The Thriller style yourselves as being in opposition to QAnon and the two of you are statistically most responsible for pushing QAnon ideas into the view of JazzFanz. If someone were to be upset over QAnon-related content having the prominence it does on JazzFanz, then it would be you and The Thriller that people should be looking at.
The exact same principle holds true for the topics you wrote about in the broader context of larger society. The responsible parties for putting those ideas into public view are those who claim to be against the things. Statistically speaking, the government and their allies in left-leaning media are the responsible parties. That isn't opinion. That is the story the evidence shows.
LogGrad98
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This completely ignores the context of any of those posts. If that were the primary driver of the spread of QAnon conspiracies, then it would have rapidly died out as people saw it for what it was. It was not anti-QAnon reporting that drove it as a conspiracy, it was pro-QAnon rhetoric and propaganda. Does it contribute by possibly getting some people to look into it that might not have seen it? Most likely. Does that make those sources fundamentally "responsible" for it and any harm it may cause? Absolutely not. This is entirely a "shoot the messenger" scenario you are building with this straw man.
Al-O-Meter
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Yes it was the anti-QAnon reporting that was the primary driver of the conspiracy
Nope. That isn't how humans work. The thing that causes ideas to die out is not opposition, but apathy. Those who claim to be fighting a thing are actually the most engaged.
There was an exchange in the movie 'Howard Stern: Private Parts' that drives this concept home.
Researcher : The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Pig Vomit : How can that be?
Researcher : Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."
Pig Vomit : Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher : Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Pig Vomit : But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher : Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."
The responsible parties for putting the ideas Red wrote about into public view are those who claim to be against the things. Statistically speaking, the government and their allies in left-leaning media are the responsible parties. That isn't opinion. That is the story the evidence shows.
fishonjazz
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Ah, so all the people who watched The Sound of Freedom are the ones who are contributing to human trafficking the most. Along with those who made and acted in the movie. I see now.
You are probably the jazzfanz poster most responsible for the weaponization of the DOJ against conservatives I guess.
Jazzyfresh is responsible for all the pedophilia that happens apparently.
Basically if you oppose something then you are actually for it and causing it to happen.
You sure post some silly stuff.
If you don't show JazzyFresh nor SteakNEggs in the top 3, that can only be because you filtered for a term, not the ideas. I don't know what order those would be with The Thriller, but they'd be above LogGrad98 considerably.
Al-O-Meter
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Belief and events are not the same thing. I am the JF poster most responsible of belief of the weaponization of the DOJ against conservatives. JazzyFresh is the JP poster most responsible for the belief that pedophilia happens. Those involved in the movie 'The Sound of Freedom' are responsible for raising the public consciousness to child trafficking being a thing that exists. Fostering belief in a thing is not the same as making a thing beyond the idea itself any more or less real.
When you talk the belief that institutions cannot be trusted, you're in the realm of ideas and which are fostered by those most engaged with those ideas.
LogGrad98
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I have never tried searching Jazz Fanz to see who posted with a specific word or term the most. When I try I just get a list of all the posts with that word or term. How do you get to the numbers for this? Anyone who has done this, or @Jason , how can we see stats on posters regarding specific terms? Is it something you can pull directly from the DB Jason?
LogGrad98
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In attempting to answer this myself, I used the search filters and searched for the following terms: "q-anon" and "qanon". The former has a lot more posts than the latter. Here is how a few of us stack up by just counting posts this search brought up under each person's name:
@Al-O-Meter - 16
@One Brow - 18
LG98 - 27
@fishonjazz - 30
@Gameface - 33
@Red - 58
@The Thriller - 66
Now in perusing a few posts I see that Al has easily another dozen or more posts using only "Q" to reference q-anon. In fact it looks like fish called him out on it and said it isn't a thing but q-anon is a thing, or something.
Anyway, no way to search for an individual letter unfortunately.
Interesting anyway. Most of these came from 3-4 threads.
Also, one other problem with this is it caught terms like "anon" by themselves, which GF used a few times in a few threads as short for simply "anonymous" which had zero reference to q-anon.
So no good way to really get an accurate count, but this is a very rough one.
Fosto
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In that case, The Sound of Freedom is actually responsible for child trafficking, since it brought the idea to public attention. Now more people know about it, and can try to partake in it.
fishonjazz
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Thriller is the poster most responsible for belief of Qanon. Fostering belief is not the same as making a thing beyond the idea itself any more or less real.
You sound incredibly nonsensical. Nice word salad with absolutely no meaning. Lol. You are so silly
Red
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Like I said, I really didn’t need to know how you came by that interpretation. Since I suspected you were saying the people who might be inclined to warn others about something are the ones actually spreading that which they warn others about, I correctly concluded, naw, never mind, don’t need to understand, at the time hoping you wouldn’t prove me right. You did anyway! I was thinking, no, don’t go to such a silly place. You did anyway.
BTW, QAnon is symptomatic of an up swelling of irrational movements characteristic of the times we live in, which can be of interest in trying to understand those times. It’s never been my intention to bore you or anyone else. They were an integral part of our body politic in recent years, witness their prominent presence at many Trump rallies, witness references to them, or their beliefs, by Trump. Seemed of interest to me, and seemed relevant within Trump threads. And conspiracism as almost a default thinking mode of many, I see it everywhere, it really is an important component to recognizing what is going on these days.
But, sorry, I almost forgot, you hate education, and would even blame it! Amazing!
Al-O-Meter
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...here on JazzFanz, 100% yes. The Thriller is the most responsible. In reality Q was made up by the administrator of 8-chan to bring traffic to his site. All the secret intel of the greater plan was fiction from the mind of Ron Watkins. QAnon was a marketing campaign. The poster on JazzFanz who is singularly most responsible for fostering the idea that QAnon was some great cultural movement with a vast army of Trump-supporting believers was The Thriller and nearly all of his supporting material came from left-leaning sources. None of it was real beyond being a website marketing campaign. Anyone who believed it was really the phenomenon The Thriller and Red claimed in post after post after post were all duped.
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