Just another form of neo-liberal class warfare, a new way to transfer public assets to private hands. it is a theft by the few against the many.
Education
- Thread starter Stoked
- Start date
Just another form of neo-liberal class warfare, a new way to transfer public assets to private hands. it is a theft by the few against the many.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
So a few things improvements I'd like to see in public education:
A. Rigorous standards and testing. And I have no problem with evaluating teachers and students on this. The problem right now is that the tests aren't rigorous enough and students have zero incentive to do well on them. Literally, the only tests we have in the K12 level that matter are SAT and ACT tests. By 11th and 12th grade, students are too far along the path to make significant changes. I'd like to see much higher standards and rigorous testing beginning at the middle school levels. School should mean more than flirting with girls and football games.
* Sidenote, I'd like to see less testing at the elementary levels. I feel like this should be the exploratory years for kids.
B. You cannot request more out of students without requesting more out of teachers. Drastically increase the standards for teachers, require far more observation time, and increase their salaries. Currently, education programs are some of the easiest to get into. That shouldn't be. Education programs typically have student teaching at the end of their programs. This should change. Candidates should have to spend weeks observing classrooms to determine if teaching is really what they want to do. Finally, based on their salary, (most) teachers in Utah qualify for food stamps and Medicaid. And we wonder why we have a shortage?
C. Change the focus from extra-curricular to academics. As a nation, we'll spend millions on football stadiums yet don't seem to care that there are 35+ to a classroom full of diverse students who don't speak English. Compare Corner Canyon's High School Stadium to Brighton High School's... School. Ummmmm...
D. Greatly re-emphasize the focus on the arts. I don't think only emphasizing Math, Science, and Language Arts is the answer. I do believe (and there's some research to support this strong opinion of mine) that the performing arts and liberal arts are crucial to developing critical thinking and writing skills and enriching a student's experience. We've seen over the past decade a surge in student anxiety and depression. Could re-emphasizing these areas help stop this trend? Or at least minimize its effects?
E. As a society being more accountable. Too many deadbeat parents dump off their kids at schools hoping that the school will raise them. That's... Not the role of a school. While I think over the past 50 years we've seen advancements in access to education (especially for minorities), I do believe that too little involvement (from all demographics) is leading to a system that caters to students and to every complaint they have. We see this especially on college campuses where students feel like professors are customer service agents rather than quality control. Snowflake students feel like they can shut down speakers, get professors fired for teaching something they don't agree with, or freak out inappropriately over the tiniest things. While I don't necessarily agree with Trump's executive order, I do agree with the notion of free speech on college campuses. If you don't agree with someone, don't go. But let them speak.
Time for us to put our big boy/girl pants on and understand that public education is an opportunity to better oneself. It's not daycare nor is it spring break in Cancun. Teachers aren't pinatas, professors aren't your slaves, high school isn't daycare, and college isn't Animal House. Don't like it? Well, Walmart is hiring!
A. Rigorous standards and testing. And I have no problem with evaluating teachers and students on this. The problem right now is that the tests aren't rigorous enough and students have zero incentive to do well on them. Literally, the only tests we have in the K12 level that matter are SAT and ACT tests. By 11th and 12th grade, students are too far along the path to make significant changes. I'd like to see much higher standards and rigorous testing beginning at the middle school levels. School should mean more than flirting with girls and football games.
* Sidenote, I'd like to see less testing at the elementary levels. I feel like this should be the exploratory years for kids.
B. You cannot request more out of students without requesting more out of teachers. Drastically increase the standards for teachers, require far more observation time, and increase their salaries. Currently, education programs are some of the easiest to get into. That shouldn't be. Education programs typically have student teaching at the end of their programs. This should change. Candidates should have to spend weeks observing classrooms to determine if teaching is really what they want to do. Finally, based on their salary, (most) teachers in Utah qualify for food stamps and Medicaid. And we wonder why we have a shortage?
C. Change the focus from extra-curricular to academics. As a nation, we'll spend millions on football stadiums yet don't seem to care that there are 35+ to a classroom full of diverse students who don't speak English. Compare Corner Canyon's High School Stadium to Brighton High School's... School. Ummmmm...
D. Greatly re-emphasize the focus on the arts. I don't think only emphasizing Math, Science, and Language Arts is the answer. I do believe (and there's some research to support this strong opinion of mine) that the performing arts and liberal arts are crucial to developing critical thinking and writing skills and enriching a student's experience. We've seen over the past decade a surge in student anxiety and depression. Could re-emphasizing these areas help stop this trend? Or at least minimize its effects?
E. As a society being more accountable. Too many deadbeat parents dump off their kids at schools hoping that the school will raise them. That's... Not the role of a school. While I think over the past 50 years we've seen advancements in access to education (especially for minorities), I do believe that too little involvement (from all demographics) is leading to a system that caters to students and to every complaint they have. We see this especially on college campuses where students feel like professors are customer service agents rather than quality control. Snowflake students feel like they can shut down speakers, get professors fired for teaching something they don't agree with, or freak out inappropriately over the tiniest things. While I don't necessarily agree with Trump's executive order, I do agree with the notion of free speech on college campuses. If you don't agree with someone, don't go. But let them speak.
Time for us to put our big boy/girl pants on and understand that public education is an opportunity to better oneself. It's not daycare nor is it spring break in Cancun. Teachers aren't pinatas, professors aren't your slaves, high school isn't daycare, and college isn't Animal House. Don't like it? Well, Walmart is hiring!
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Yes, and people from both sides of the political spectrum have bought into this. Really, vouchers and charters have hamstrung our public education system. When I began K12 I would always see a surge of kids "kicked out" of the charter school system mid-october. That was when they had to keep that student to keep the money. As soon as they could, they dumped the undesirable kid back into the public education system without us receiving the money back. So we would take back the problem and they kept the money. Then, you'd base my evaluation and my school's grade on students like that?
#somuchwinning
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
I've seen plenty of these over the years, don't care. If I did I'd probably start with how widely debunked bull **** they are, but I wont.
The kids who take the college courses and get the college degree will out-earn those who take the vocational courses. Why would counselors steer students toward more limited options?
There is more to life than $$.
Perhaps the talents, desires and goals of said student lie more in line with what a trade school can provide.
Providing as many paths as possible is a good thing is it not?
This ^^
And if it's a matter of salary, many trades pay as much as some careers requiring a 4-year bachelors degree.
Perhaps, although at the age of 16, I'm not sure how much we can rely on our knowledge of a student's talents, goals, and desires. Even developmentally challenged kids moderately into the autism spectrum can find new challenges, opportunities, and capabilities in a college environment.
I'm not arguing against training in the trades. The community college I teach at does a lot of training in the trades, as well as classes that broaden the mind. Why would you steer kids away from that?
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
Hit me up. I'm in the valley today.
Innovation rarely comes from those entrenched in any institution.
Improvement rarely happens without detailed knowledge of the existing flaws.
Agree, I wouldn't at all - - but in some communities, such thinking is completely shunned. Overall, I would like to see more respect for different paths, more flexibility for those who want to consider part-time student status, returning to school to complete a degree, internships and apprenticeships and stuff like that. And more understanding that a direct high-school to college path may not be the best path for everyone.
To a large degree I view much of this as more of a societal issue rather than strictly an education issue.
Yep. Horse buggy manufacturers invent better buggies. Someone else invented the car.
You think that happened with extensive understanding of 1) the stresses that a carriage undergoes in travel, and 2) the already existing engine technology?
Simply present all the options and let them decide. Just stick it all together. It’s their choice. Just present all the options. See what we get.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Karl Benz designed and built industrial scales and Bridges before he started working in engines.
Provide no guidance to a 16-year-old who is making decisions that will affect them when they are 40?
Exactly.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
François Isaac de Rivaz, the first one to put an internal combustion engine into a frame as an automobile was a surveyor and notary.