Ill try to make this short
- apparently you didn't need another hint
Wow. You're bright. You read right through my sarcasm.
- sorry, since when are we talking about the completeness of players? I thought the topic was whether there are short, defensive aces in our era?
I've been talking about it for the past 3 or 4 posts--at about the time when you were feebly attempting to compare Dennis Rodman, who played in a different millenium and was never called on to be an offensive player, with Millsap as an option at the PF spot on the Jazz, where a player who is primarily a defender or primarily a scorer (cf. Boozer and sometimes Jefferson) ain't enough.
- Wallace was never required to be a legit defender?
Wallace was never required to be a legit defender AND a scorer. Reread the post.
- Big Ben Era was a decade ago?
Well I'll be! Wallace is so irrelevant, he's surreptitiously still in the league! Only one of your two main examples hasn't played in the NBA in the past 10 years. LOL.
- Please show a trend of todays forwards growing from 2007 onwards, seeing as id say that was the end of the Ben Wallace Era.
I have repeatedly stated that I don't know if the height of forwards has increased. But I maintain that they have become more athletic. It's not worth it to me to analyze it specifically; I invite someone to prove or disprove it. The farthest I'll go is with this opinion post
- Not once did I saw Millsap should leave his game, and embrace the games of wallace or rodman.
Neither did I. What I said is that to justify being better than a sixth man on the Jazz, Millsap had better be able to be more than a defense-oriented Rodman or Wallace. He already is, but he has to be able to score and defend the top (often taller) players in the league not named Garnett.
What I have been saying for these past ten posts or wtv is that Millsaps height isnt barring his defensive ability, and height should never be considered a players ceiling, and I have brought forth several examples of its pointlessness, examples you consistently seem to miss.
Repeating the same thing over and over isn't "examples." Or were Rodman and Wallace your best shot at examples, given that I have demonstrated thoroughly how the comparison doesn't apply?
My initial point is that he isnt "too-short" and I stand by it still throughout this discussion, and here you are telling me why Ben Wallace would suck compared to Millsap and the thing is \I seriously don't care.
Ben Wallace needs a scoring big alongside him. Millsap HAD a scoring big alongside him, and it wasn't enough last season, in no small part because the scoring big didn't defend sufficiently--and was only 6'10", making their combined height 6'9" at best. Could have had a lot to do with the other three positions.
If Millsap is able to prove me wrong and demonstrate an ability to defend and score on the Gasols and the Nenes and the Duncans of the playoffs, then I will be delighted. Boozer, who is taller, couldn't. Millsap gives a damn about defense more. My argument here is the odds -- and even his own history against height (except vs. KG and a few others) -- are against him.
Point is, height does NOT equal defence.
Not completely. It does correlate with a portion of a team's success--and more so with defense than with offense.
https://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=82
https://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=809
Two stellar examples are given,
Your two stellar examples have been ejected from the game and are showering their tattoos right now, even though the game is not over. One example was the 3rd option at best (behind Pippen and Jordan) on a team with the best player in the history of the NBA and is far from a scorer.
The other example has a 6 PPG career average (roflmbo!) and a 41.5% free throw (not FG, FT) average. Not relevant to Millsap, who doesn't need to be as good a defender as they are, but needs to be able to hold his own against players up to six inches taller than he is, in a league that calls fouls more closely, and still have energy to score on the other end, because Utah doesn't have a Jordan.
you have given no DIRECT retaliation/counter-argument regarding why height bars a player from being a good defender, and hence you emerge from this discussion a loser. I apologize to the forum for this somewhat off-topic argument.
I, too, apologize to the forum that dalamon is relying on thinly veiled logic and evidence to support his point. I have demonstrated why comparing Millsap to Mrs. Rodman is tenuous, as they play vastly different roles, even though they ususually playe(d) the same position. To justify being more than a 6th man once the Jazz have two developed bigs, Millsap needs to be a go-to scorer AND a defender. Rodman needed to do only one of those things.
My counterarguments couldn't be much more direct.
