Game Thread Feb 10, 2023 05:30PM MT: Jazz at Raptors

[Elizah Huge]

Unfortunately, this is part of the cultural issue with stubborn Finns that there is absolutely no point in me trying to tell them how to behave. These are shortcomings in our apparently genetic code that is extremely hard to overcome. I guess I have some kind of relatively different (not saying it is in any way better, just different) perspective after living and growing up abroad in a different cultural environment.

But yes, luckily its a small minority that makes complete arses of themselves but it tends to brand pretty much the whole Finn-fanbase. As I mentioned earlier, once you get over these smoke-screens you will find that most are friendly folk with some hot takes. Well, I think that's it with the finnsplaining.

Edit. No offence taken.

I think you, HermanG, Step-Back-Hook, Conestoga Finn, etc are great to have around and I appreciate you guys being here. I’m sure I’m missing a couple but you’re right 2-3 bad apples ruin the whole batch of good apples it seems sometimes. I will remember what you said when I read their posts in the future.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think you, HermanG, Step-Back-Hook, Conestoga Finn, etc are great to have around and I appreciate you guys being here. I’m sure I’m missing a couple but you’re right 2-3 bad apples ruin the whole batch of good apples it seems sometimes. I will remember what you said when I read their posts in the future.

I didn't Herman was finnish dude. He is great. And yes so is step back hook. Also was unaware that he was finnish.

 

[HermanG]

I think you, HermanG, Step-Back-Hook, Conestoga Finn, etc are great to have around and I appreciate you guys being here. I’m sure I’m missing a couple but you’re right 2-3 bad apples ruin the whole batch of good apples it seems sometimes. I will remember what you said when I read their posts in the future.

I'm a bit different since I was actually a Jazz fan before Lauri was even born. Played hoops in the 90s.. hated the Bulls and rooted for the Jazz especially because of Stockton (I was a PG as well).

Then I quit playing and had a black hole period following other sports more for nearly two decades while only box score browsing the NBA.

I came back following it more after Lauri joined the league but never even registered to (troll) Bulls board or discuss in Cavs board...

And then it happened at 1st of September in Gods year of 2022 and I had to both register here and subscribe to season pass for the first time ever.

So I root for both Jazz and Lauri equally, and my #1 wish would be that Lauri retires a jazzman... maybe with a ring or 5..

 

[kcgar]

There are about half of the new Finnish posters who honestly are some of the best posters on the site. My comments were not directed towards them at all.

Hmm…Eddie Zero must be one of them ******* Finns. I like your explanation and can understand your point Mr. T. I think it will work out, with a slight tank next year better than most Finns think.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hmm…Eddie Zero must be one of them ******* Finns. I like your explanation and can understand your point Mr. T. I think it will work out, with a slight tank next year better than most Finns think.

Eddie either permadrunk or a kid… I had to go on ignore… couldn’t do it anymore.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And listen up… I am the tankiest of tank masters that ever tanked… but if we keep winning and it’s powered by the guys that will be here long term… then eff it we good.

 

[Korisfani]

There are about half of the new Finnish posters who honestly are some of the best posters on the site. My comments were not directed towards them at all.

I've had more people call me names, insults, be generally aggressive than on any other sports board in a decade. I've tried to be civil at all times, maybe it hasn't always felt that way, and I sure am a contrarian on many issues.

You long-time Jazz fans have had exciting playoff seasons just recently, with deeply frustrating outcomes of course. Whereas the Finnish contingent - that mainly follows the NBA through Lauri (even if I for example have been watching the league since Reggie Miller dragged the Pacers to the Finals) - has been forced to watch some truly awul teams and basketball. If I never have to hear Zach LaVine's name, I'll die happy.

Lauri's NBA career started with a dude punching a teammate in training camp and breaking his jaw. And the puncher staying with the team. Mike and Kessler were/are the easiest teammates to cheer for in Lauri's whole career, by miles and miles. And of course everything has been clicking both for Lauri and the team. We Finns always being someone's "little brother" in one sport or another loooooove an underdog story. I'd think it's safe to say the Finnish Lauri/NBA fans are much, much more invested in the Jazz than they ever were the Bulls or the Cavs. People aren't following the team only for Lauri and bitching about every single time someone didn't pass to an open Lauri.

But, still, we want to see Lauri in the playoffs sooner rather than later. His teams have on average won something like 25 games. If it's with the Jazz, that's super and means everything went to plan. If not, most won't shed many tears. No-one on this board is crying for Don or Rudy, quite the opposite - it seemed there were loads of people hoping they both get booed on their respective returns to Utah. So, there's no loyalty in this game other than for the jersey from the fans, that's all.

***

And the last couple of pages seem in parts a bit strange for a fan base that claims to love Lauri more than anything and be 100 % committed. Not even a 4th option on a decent team. Clearly a worse player than Jaylen Brown, Darius Garland, De'Aaron Fox, Jrue Holiday. Only good because he's in Hardy's system and getting more touches than he could anywhere (despite Lauri being #39 in FGA).

Why would you even want to keep him long-term if he's just barely maybe a top50 player in your opinion?

 

[Elizah Huge]

And the last couple of pages seem in parts a bit strange for a fan base that claims to love Lauri more than anything and be 100 % committed. Not even a 4th option on a decent team. Clearly a worse player than Jaylen Brown, Darius Garland, De'Aaron Fox, Jrue Holiday. Only good because he's in Hardy's system and getting more touches than he could anywhere (despite Lauri being #39 in FGA).

Why would you even want to keep him long-term if he's just barely maybe a top50 player in your opinion?

You aren’t understanding what we are saying. You are saying Lauri could be the #1 or #2 option on a championship team now. We all agree with that.

What you are missing is before the season he was seen as a 4th option. He ascended to an all-star starter here in Utah.

So my entire point is you wouldn’t be cheering for this upgraded and unlocked level of Lauri this season if he wasn’t playing for the Jazz.

 

[Korisfani]

What you are missing is before the season he was seen as a 4th option. He ascended to an all-star starter here in Utah.

So my entire point is you wouldn’t be cheering for this upgraded and unlocked level of Lauri this season if he wasn’t playing for the Jazz.

I agree with you, completely. I've not disagreed with that at any point. Actually, in my previous post I wrote that I doubted that Lauri would've had many offers if he had been a FA last summer.

However, this isn't before the season any more. Now Lauri is an All-Star starter. He's not signing an extension for $20M per. He's not happy just to get a chance at starter minutes with someone. The world is his personal oyster and almost everyone would gladly take him. And he hasn't been to the playoffs in five years (presumably, soon six).

If the Jazz aren't competitive and are instead tanking, there aren't many basketball reasons for him to stay.

You aren’t understanding what we are saying. You are saying Lauri could be the #1 or #2 option on a championship team now. We all agree with that.

Do we? You just said Lauri is 4th or 5th option on the Nuggets, and presumably that includes quite a few more teams, cos I don't think Michael Porter Jr. really is the benchmark. Another poster listing 2/3 of the teams where Lauri wouldn't be #2.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I agree with you, completely. I've not disagreed with that at any point. Actually, in my previous post I wrote that I doubted that Lauri would've had many offers if he had been a FA last summer.

However, this isn't before the season any more. Now Lauri is an All-Star starter. He's not signing an extension for $20M per. He's not happy just to get a chance at starter minutes with someone. The world is his personal oyster and almost everyone would gladly take him. And he hasn't been to the playoffs in five years (presumably, soon six).

If the Jazz aren't competitive and are instead tanking, there aren't many basketball reasons for him to stay.

Do we? You just said Lauri is 4th or 5th option on the Nuggets, and presumably that includes quite a few more teams, cos I don't think Michael Porter Jr. really is the benchmark. Another poster listing 2/3 of the teams where Lauri wouldn't be #2.

Lauri would have been a 4th option on the Nuggets prior to the season was my point. Would you have liked watching him do that this season on the #1 team in the West or do what he’s doing with us was my question.

I don’t think he’d be anything worse than a 2nd option on like three total teams now. He’d be the #1 option on 3/4 of the total teams in the league. He’s that ****ing good. He’s the best player we’ve had since the 90’s.

 

[HermanG]

I've had more people call me names, insults, be generally aggressive than on any other sports board in a decade. I've tried to be civil at all times, maybe it hasn't always felt that way, and I sure am a contrarian on many issues.

You long-time Jazz fans have had exciting playoff seasons just recently, with deeply frustrating outcomes of course. Whereas the Finnish contingent - that mainly follows the NBA through Lauri (even if I for example have been watching the league since Reggie Miller dragged the Pacers to the Finals) - has been forced to watch some truly awul teams and basketball. If I never have to hear Zach LaVine's name, I'll die happy.

Lauri's NBA career started with a dude punching a teammate in training camp and breaking his jaw. And the puncher staying with the team. Mike and Kessler were/are the easiest teammates to cheer for in Lauri's whole career, by miles and miles. And of course everything has been clicking both for Lauri and the team. We Finns always being someone's "little brother" in one sport or another loooooove an underdog story. I'd think it's safe to say the Finnish Lauri/NBA fans are much, much more invested in the Jazz than they ever were the Bulls or the Cavs. People aren't following the team only for Lauri and bitching about every single time someone didn't pass to an open Lauri.

But, still, we want to see Lauri in the playoffs sooner rather than later. His teams have on average won something like 25 games. If it's with the Jazz, that's super and means everything went to plan. If not, most won't shed many tears. No-one on this board is crying for Don or Rudy, quite the opposite - it seemed there were loads of people hoping they both get booed on their respective returns to Utah. So, there's no loyalty in this game other than for the jersey from the fans, that's all.

***

And the last couple of pages seem in parts a bit strange for a fan base that claims to love Lauri more than anything and be 100 % committed. Not even a 4th option on a decent team. Clearly a worse player than Jaylen Brown, Darius Garland, De'Aaron Fox, Jrue Holiday. Only good because he's in Hardy's system and getting more touches than he could anywhere (despite Lauri being #39 in FGA).

Why would you even want to keep him long-term if he's just barely maybe a top50 player in your opinion?

First off. Jazz have missed the playoffs 9 times in the last 40 years. So welcome to perennial winners side.

Also, partially due to some great teams and historical success, the franchise has never drafted #1 and only once #2. Last time drafting top 10 even was nearly a decade ago.

This year there is a unique chance to get 1 or maybe even 2 picks... and add them to a team that has an All-star and some great young talent.

Danny Ainge has built two championship level teams in past two decades. First one he bought, second one he drafted. He knows how to do it both ways.

Now he said he will build the next one around Lauri and the other young blocks we have (pun intended).

Lauri has never been in a better place.

(Also respect these guys some of whom have posted here for a decade or more, and dont challenge them about every detail as the new guy.. and you will find lot less hostility)

 

[SoUjazzfan]

First off. Jazz have missed the playoffs 9 times in the last 40 years. So welcome to perennial winners side.

Also, partially due to some great teams and historical success, the franchise has never drafted #1 and only once #2. Last time drafting top 10 even was nearly a decade ago.

This year there is a unique chance to get 1 or maybe even 2 picks... and add them to a team that has an All-star and some great young talent.

Danny Ainge has built two championship level teams in past two decades. First one he bought, second one he drafted. He knows how to do it both ways.

Now he said he will build the next one around Lauri and the other young blocks we have (pun intended).

Lauri has never been in a better place.

(Also respect these guys some of whom have posted here for a decade or more, and dont challenge them about every detail as the new guy.. and you will find lot less hostility)

Excellent post!! Things are good in jazzland!

 

[Korisfani]

Lauri has never been in a better place.

Agree.

And if Lauri wastes three years of his absolute prime on a tanking team, he couldn't be in a worse place.

(Also respect these guys some of whom have posted here for a decade or more, and dont challenge them about every detail as the new guy.. and you will find lot less hostility)

This I don't get at all. We're all just fans. Or, hopefully DA isn't posting here.

Some have watched basketball for decades, some started this year. Some might've coached for years, someone hasn't ever picked up a ball in their life. I've been on a lot of boards (sports and others), starting in the mid-90s, and I've never seen one where you're required to be deferential to your "elders". The level of hostility has been Twitter-esque.

 

[framer]

I think the important thing to understand is that the Utah Jazz are building a team AROUND Lauri. They are taking a player, that many here love, and actually moving pieces to make sure that he has a team that makes HIM the focus. When the playoffs come, we will be ride or die with Lauri and the pieces that we have drafted and acquired to make him shine.

That is the best possible situation for him and someone who purports to be a big fan. The Jazz got lucky and found their All-Star starter the first year of their rebuild, and already have enough assets that they do not need to muck around for two or three years trying to figure out an identity. Everybody is winning right now. And most of all, Lauri has been given the most open-ended opportunity ANYONE in this league ever gets, especially a "throw-in" in a trade along with 4 draft picks (I counting Ochai) coming along with them.

Would you rather have Lauri on a team, or Lauri's team?

 

[Agent#00]

Agree.

And if Lauri wastes three years of his absolute prime on a tanking team, he couldn't be in a worse place.

This I don't get at all. We're all just fans. Or, hopefully DA isn't posting here.

Some have watched basketball for decades, some started this year. Some might've coached for years, someone hasn't ever picked up a ball in their life. I've been on a lot of boards (sports and others), starting in the mid-90s, and I've never seen one where you're required to be deferential to your "elders". The level of hostility has been Twitter-esque.

Don't get too emotional man. Especially now with DA at the helm. His goal is to build a championship team. You play for him, one of your foot is out the door already.

As for lauri, jazz is doing everything they can for him to succeed. Jazz is good for him. allstar,MIP. If he want to win a championship then jazz may not fit his timeline. he better play grumpy, demand a trade, ask for peanut salary and join Phoenix or Denver. You rejoice him in your country but wheres the JOY in that? Will he feel fulfilled? Look at what's going on with Durant right now. If he don't want to stay here, we will find another guy to build around. I'm pretty sure we will do just fine with all the truck load of first round picks and 60mil (?) Cap space we have.

 

[Korisfani]

Don't get too emotional man. Especially now with DA at the helm. His goal is to build a championship team. You play for him, one of your foot is out the door already.

Exactly. But it goes both ways.

he better play grumpy, demand a trade, ask for peanut salary and join Phoenix or Denver.

He's not going to do that. I've not once called for him to do that. But why should he stay, from a personal basketball pov, if the team only aims to lose as much as possible for a multi-year tank?

And why would he ask for "peanuts" when he can get >$100M from all teams?

You rejoice him in your country but wheres the JOY in that? Will he feel fulfilled? Look at what's going on with Durant right now.

Where's the joy in a multi-year tank?

If he don't want to stay here, we will find another guy to build around. I'm pretty sure we will do just fine with all the truck load of first round picks and 60mil (?) Cap space we have.

You expect maximum loyalty from the player, even demand it. And will boo them if they don't show that. Then your own loyalty to the player seems to be "good riddance, we're better off without you anyway". Strange.

 

[Agent#00]

Exactly. But it goes both ways.

He's not going to do that. I've not once called for him to do that. But why should he stay, from a personal basketball pov, if the team only aims to lose as much as possible for a multi-year tank?

And why would he ask for "peanuts" when he can get >$100M from all teams?

Where's the joy in a multi-year tank?

You expect maximum loyalty from the player, even demand it. And will boo them if they don't show that. Then your own loyalty to the player seems to be "good riddance, we're better off without you anyway". Strange.

I don't know where your pov is coming from but obviously you are a lauri fan and not a jazzfan. You are more concerned about one player, we are concerned about the whole team. I bet you will leave this group if lauri move to another team while us stays here and embrace whoever is left or coming. After all we live in this city anyway. Not saying that you are wrong just saying there's a difference.

Joy in multi year tank? You believe everything you read here? who is doing multi year tank? What we are doibg requires time. Again may not fit lauris timeline if he want to win a ring.

What is strange? Booing fans? This is the natural behaviour of every die hard fan. All fans hate their star players leaving. they all ask for loyalty and will feel sad if you go. But eventually they move on.

 

[Conestoga Finn]

Dudes. There is indeed Finnish contingent who will depart that same second when Lauri gets traded. Be aware of it, be acknowledged about it, and - as far how it goes with Jazz - expect it. Lauri himself cannot ever make a Team, but he can do that even alone, better than Jazz fandom have been capable of. The Biggest problem in Jazz fandom is that people who will be always against the Jazz.

If Lauri sucks, that goes practically for everyone else than Lauri himself. In these circumstances.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Dudes. There is indeed Finnish contingent who will depart that same second when Lauri gets traded. Be aware of it, be acknowledged about it, and - as far how it goes with Jazz - expect it. Lauri himself cannot ever make a Team, but he can do that even alone, better than Jazz fandom have been capable of. The Biggest problem in Jazz fandom is that people who will be always against the Jazz.

If Lauri sucks, that goes practically for everyone else than Lauri himself. In these circumstances.

What’s going to happen when Lauri retires a Jazzman and we build him a statue?

 

[Conestoga Finn]

What’s going to happen when Lauri retires a Jazzman and we build him a statue?

That is the Preference. A lot (read all) depends on Lauri himself, but as we know the Type, we can only hope it will roll out there.

A long before our Finnish Divine Interpretation leave from the Salt Lake City, or NBA, there will be some busts all around Finland. Hometown doesn't have to be particularly bothered. There will be always enough bush to achieve such things, seldom when the agency is the active one.

Establish a school of Basketball in a name of Lauri for kids before any sculpture. That is how Lauri sees it, - and as a random Finnish basketball fan - I see that the cohorts of Finnish Lauri fans see it too.