Game Thread Feb 10, 2023 05:30PM MT: Jazz at Raptors

[Korisfani]

Put Lauri on the Celtics or Nugs and you don't see him having a breakout season and putting up even close to the same numbers. On those teams he would have continued to just being his old role player self. It took giving him the keys to the car to get him to snap out of his passive self that he has been his entire career.

Yes, but that happened. That time has now passed. IF he was a FA last year, how many teams would've offered him? Not many I think.

Now he's an All-Star starter and playing at a consistent All-Star level and showing that he can only get better. IF he was available right this second and all teams had room to offer him, is there even a single team in the league that wouldn't take him with glee? I don't think so.

Before, he had close to no options and the Jazz absolutely were the perfect situation for him this year. Now, he has all the options and right this second half the league are better situations. Things change, quickly, in the NBA as we saw at the deadline of course. But if The Plan is another season of tanking and maybe being competitive in four-five years time, then all those other situations remain being better than the situation with the Jazz.

 

[sip]

Because he doesn't. No NBA player does. And during the last 10 years half the stars in the league have shown they feel they don't owe anyone anything.
(There are 1-in-500 exceptions like Dame who have and will play their entire career with one team.)


Perfect?

So playing with the Celtics in the Finals wouldn't be better? Or teaming up with Jokic? Or any other of a multitude of teams that are somewhat contenders?

The reality right now is Lauri is playing with guards that aren't a top25 grouping, and the team is extremely unlikely to make the playoffs this year and doubtful to do so next year.

There are several situations that are much, much better for him as an individual (when it comes to basketball at least). Could the Jazz's situation improve, and possibly even rather quickly? Of course, the Jazz have all the tools to do so. But if the call is to absolutely be in the lottery next year as well, that's far from a perfect situation for him - it's a nightmare, seven seasons without so much a a whiff of the playoffs and another of his very few prime seasons wasted.

Put Lauri on the Celtics or Nugs and you don't see him having a breakout season and putting up even close to the same numbers. On those teams he would have continued to just being his old role player self. It took giving him the keys to the car to get him to snap out of his passive self that he has been his entire carer

Yes, but that happened. That time has now passed. IF he was a FA last year, how many teams would've offered him? Not many I think.

Now he's an All-Star starter and playing at a consistent All-Star level and showing that he can only get better. IF he was available right this second and all teams had room to offer him, is there even a single team in the league that wouldn't take him with glee? I don't think so.

Before, he had close to no options and the Jazz absolutely were the perfect situation for him this year. Now, he has all the options and right this second half the league are better situations. Things change, quickly, in the NBA as we saw at the deadline of course. But if The Plan is another season of tanking and maybe being competitive in four-five years time, then all those other situations remain being better than the situation with the Jazz.

Once again you are overreacting. Now you are saying 4 to 5 years down the line. At least let the rest of this season and the offseason play out before you get overly dramatic.

 

[Korisfani]

Once again you are overreacting. Now you are saying 4 to 5 years down the line. At least let the rest of this season and the offseason play out before you get overly dramatic.

I'm only replying to people that are calling to a) tank next year and b) play and develop all the rookies then picked. Is there another time scale in that scenario? I mean, sure, they could then dump the rookies for established vets, but that doesn't make sense, no?

And what exactly is overly dramatic about saying that there are at least a dozen teams that offer a better situation for a player wanting to compete, be in the playoffs and get a crack at the title? Do you completely and whole-heartedly disagree with that?

 

[fishonjazz]

Teams don't go from full-on tanking to "clear upswing" overnight. Imagine Lauri's exit interview with DA after next year and a 22-win season. He's obviously telling don't expect him to re-sign. Which DA can counter with "I'm getting Luka here" - but that's not very probable.

Sure they do. Injuries can cause a tank, dudes can recover from injuries the next season. Trades for stars can be made. Draft picks can be special players. I have seen it happen. Happened to the warriors, spurs, and cavs to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[fishonjazz]

I kind of get it. I'm sure Lauri fans would like to finally watch him on a good team and see how he performs in the playoffs. For them, since they aren't invested in the Jazz, the short term is much more relevant than the long term. I'm guessing they would mostly be happy with a perennial playoff team that's never good enough to win a title, whereas Jazz fans are sick of those type of teams and want to see us build a true championship level team.

Good post
Time for me to use that ignore button.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Put Lauri on the Celtics or Nugs and you don't see him having a breakout season and putting up even close to the same numbers. On those teams he would have continued to just being his old role player self. It took giving him the keys to the car to get him to snap out of his passive self that he has been his entire carer

Once again you are overreacting. Now you are saying 4 to 5 years down the line. At least let the rest of this season and the offseason play out before you get overly dramatic.

It sounds like they’d rather see Lauri be a 4th or 5th piece on Denver than an all-star starter in Utah? I’m very interested to see if that’s the case.

 

[HermanG]

Sure they do. Injuries can cause a tank, dudes can recover from injuries the next season. Trades for stars can be made. Draft picks can be special players. I have seen it happen. Happened to the warriors, spurs, and cavs to name a few off the top of my head.

Not even that rare.15 occasions since 2000 that a team boosted its record by .269 or more... which in our case would lead to 0.750ish lol.

Best of that bunch was....





wait for it.....






Danny Ainge built Celtics team who improved from 0.293 to 0.805 between 2007 and 2008 and won the chip.

 

[Korisfani]

Happened to the warriors, spurs, and cavs to name a few off the top of my head.

If you mean the one-year blips with teams that already had MVPs and multiple All-Stars, I don't see an MVP on the Jazz roster. The Warriors and Spurs didn't have multi-year rebuilds going on. They were already tops the West and in the Warriors case multiple championships with that roster. The Jazz have none of that.

It sounds like they’d rather see Lauri be a 4th or 5th piece on Denver than an all-star starter in Utah? I’m very interested to see if that’s the case.

Name the competitive teams Lauri isn't the #2 on today.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I have a sneaky feeling he got the trusted star treatment and he was made aware of the direction before the moves were made. Just something about his calm demeanor in interviews through the trade period and after the news.

Might have been Conley, might be just that he has been around long enough.. or then it was the FO.

I think everyone kinda knew the deal. I think JC was extra bummed cuz he didn’t know if he was next and he’s like Will Smith at the end of Fresh Prince… everyone left him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you mean the one-year blips with teams that already had MVPs and multiple All-Stars, I don't see an MVP on the Jazz roster. The Warriors and Spurs didn't have multi-year rebuilds going on. They were already tops the West and in the Warriors case multiple championships with that roster. The Jazz have none of that.


Name the competitive teams Lauri isn't the #2 on today.

Suns, Mavs, Cavs

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think everyone kinda knew the deal. I think JC was extra bummed cuz he didn’t know if he was next and he’s like Will Smith at the end of Fresh Prince… everyone left him.

View attachment 13860

Whoa, is this really how the show ends? I'm not sure I ever saw this episode.

 

[sip]

Not even that rare.15 occasions since 2000 that a team boosted its record by .269 or more... which in our case would lead to 0.750ish lol.

Best of that bunch was....





wait for it.....






Danny Ainge built Celtics team who improved from 0.293 to 0.805 between 2007 and 2008 and won the chip.

We are watching it right now with the magic and thunder. Both teams full on tanked last year and are clearly now on the upswing. There is no reason it can't be the exact same for the jazz.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Suns, Mavs, Cavs

I don’t understand why he’s asking that because Lauri would have never been seen as a #1 or #2 on any team before this season. Sure, it’s easy to say that now he is but we are talking before the season.

 

[Mr. T]

I really just don’t understand how Lauri’s fans from Finland come on here and say Lauri owes the team nothing and he’s leaving as soon as he gets a chance. We are the first team not to trade him and he literally blossomed into an all-star starter his first year here. The system Hardy has really helps Lauri utilize his strengths. Just really weird behavior when this is the perfect situation for Lauri.

The discussion started with the hope of full-on tanking next year. To that I replied that if that is the case Lauri will not resign with Jazz. That is in no way implying that Lauri (or his Finnish fans) have thus far been unhappy or are ungreatful. Regardless, the prospect of full-blown tank and a long rebuild when Lauri is in his prime is from his fans perspective throwing away Lauri's best years as a professional basketball player.

One thing that is culturally good to understand about Finns is that we tend to be very direct, say exactly what we think, and when it comes to arguments we have a adjective "pilkunnussija" which translates directly as f***ing the comma. This all results in Finns coming out as rude, dramatic, annoying and embarrassing in some times to the worst extent. Once you guys get past these communicational hurdles or dysfunctions you will find Finns to be same kind of arseholes as the rest of you guys. In a good sense.

Just chill.

 

[sip]

If you mean the one-year blips with teams that already had MVPs and multiple All-Stars, I don't see an MVP on the Jazz roster. The Warriors and Spurs didn't have multi-year rebuilds going on. They were already tops the West and in the Warriors case multiple championships with that roster. The Jazz have none of that.


Name the competitive teams Lauri isn't the #2 on today.

Suns, Mavs, Lakers, Celtics, Cavs, Kings, Clippers, Bucks, Sixers. Then of course there are tons of teams where he simply wouldn't get even close to the same amount of touches because of offensive player depth or there is already an established star front court player. He would not even come close to getting the same amount of touches on teams like the warriors, nugs, hawks, knicks, raptors, wolves, griz, pelicans, wizards and heat.

 

[oldtimer]

Lauri has been incredible. Love him. Perfect fit. Hope he retires from the jazz a very rich man. Truth is he owes the jazz nothing but to play hard during his contract. Loyalty is an illusion for fans. Teams dont have it players shouldnt have it. Play hard, earn your next contract. I will cheer and be amazed by how good you are every day you are here.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The discussion started with the hope of full-on tanking next year. To that I replied that if that is the case Lauri will not resign with Jazz. That is in no way implying that Lauri (or his Finnish fans) have thus far been unhappy or are ungreatful. Regardless, the prospect of full-blown tank and a long rebuild when Lauri is in his prime is from his fans perspective throwing away Lauri's best years as a professional basketball player.

One thing that is culturally good to understand about Finns is that we tend to be very direct, say exactly what we think, and when it comes to arguments we have a adjective "pilkunnussija" which translates directly as f***ing the comma. This all results in Finns coming out as rude, dramatic, annoying and embarrassing in some times to the worst extent. Once you guys get past these communicational hurdles or dysfunctions you will find Finns to be same kind of arseholes as the rest of you guys. In a good sense.

Just chill.

Sorry if I offended you. We have guys in a game thread of a game we won saying Lauri is going to request a trade. Maybe tell some of your friends to chill.

 

[Elizah Huge]

There are about half of the new Finnish posters who honestly are some of the best posters on the site. My comments were not directed towards them at all.

 

[Mr. T]

Sorry if I offended you. We have guys in a game thread of a game we won saying Lauri is going to request a trade. Maybe tell some of your friends to chill.

Unfortunately, this is part of the cultural issue with stubborn Finns that there is absolutely no point in me trying to tell them how to behave. These are shortcomings in our apparently genetic code that is extremely hard to overcome. I guess I have some kind of relatively different (not saying it is in any way better, just different) perspective after living and growing up abroad in a different cultural environment.

But yes, luckily its a small minority that makes complete arses of themselves but it tends to brand pretty much the whole Finn-fanbase. As I mentioned earlier, once you get over these smoke-screens you will find that most are friendly folk with some hot takes. Well, I think that's it with the finnsplaining.

Edit. No offence taken.

 

[underdog]

Sure they do. Injuries can cause a tank, dudes can recover from injuries the next season. Trades for stars can be made. Draft picks can be special players. I have seen it happen. Happened to the warriors, spurs, and cavs to name a few off the top of my head.

Exactly. Way too early to worry about Lauri leaving. He is happy here now, and we should leave it at that. Danny will use his bargaining chips (FRPs) to build a contender. Let’s first see what he can do this summer and next season.