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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

With Ace you have to talk yourself into him being Ant (not his game but with the red flags) or like Tatum had a lot of that Mamba Mentality that had to be weeded out. Ant had some weird interviews... some flaws in his game... and played for an unserious team. Ant was a much better prospect but you are hoping some of this is just immaturity and the other stuff can be redirected. If they are actually coachable (like interviews I can see drawing some wild stuff out of an 18-19 yo) and a hard worker... that is will be what matters most.

I think the way its trending there is like a 30-50% chance its Ace that is available at 5. I can see a team trading up for him and jumping us (Wizards would be the first candidate)... if he landed at 5 I'd be fine making that bet or taking him and sliding back for someone else we believe in... if there is a nice premium.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
If Ace falls to us cuz he doesn't have great interview etiquette I'm pleased
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The last time a player fell to the Jazz due to just horrible interviews, it was 2023 when Cam Whitmore fell to the Jazz at 16.

... And then the Jazz passed on him for Keyonte because Keyonte interviewed so much better.

Keyonte is viewed as a better prospect than Whitmore and both are pretty marginal prospects so it was obviously fine.

Cam and Ace are obviously very different in that Whitmore basically gave one to two word answers to every question and seemed nearly asleep every time he did interviews, whereas Ace thinks he's the greatest basketball player to ever live. Very different types of bad interviewer so we don't know if the Jazz mind these bad answers from Ace.

The Jazz also picked Cody in large part due to how well he interviewed so we'll see if they change their approach after Cody was horrendous.
 
KqWIN said:
The three sleepers JE had:

Clayton Jr
Traoré
Fleming

open.substack.com

3 NBA Prospects Who Could Haunt the Teams That Don’t Draft Them

An NCAA champion, the next French point guard, and the player with the biggest plus wingspan in the draft
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Click to expand...

I can see Clayton Jr being slept on based on his age. I can kind of see Traore being slept on based on being an international prospect that people don't get to see and having his numbers tanked by a potentially unrepresentative sample. I'm not sure how Fleming is slept on? Maybe because he played in a lower conference? I would say that's actually why is a little bit of a risk because we don't have a lot of data against good competition.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I can see Clayton Jr being slept on based on his age. I can kind of see Traore being slept on based on being an international prospect that people don't get to see and having his numbers tanked by a potentially unrepresentative sample. I'm not sure how Fleming is slept on? Maybe because he played in a lower conference? I would say that's actually why is a little bit of a risk because we don't have a lot of data against good competition.
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That entire list is my slept on list, since I now don’t think Noa is slept on anymore.

I think Clayton late first will look like a homerun in a few years.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I can see Clayton Jr being slept on based on his age. I can kind of see Traore being slept on based on being an international prospect that people don't get to see and having his numbers tanked by a potentially unrepresentative sample. I'm not sure how Fleming is slept on? Maybe because he played in a lower conference? I would say that's actually why is a little bit of a risk because we don't have a lot of data against good competition.
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I've just seen so many mocks recently that have Clayton in the teens that I am not sure he really is slept on... seems pretty high/about right to me.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I can see Clayton Jr being slept on based on his age. I can kind of see Traore being slept on based on being an international prospect that people don't get to see and having his numbers tanked by a potentially unrepresentative sample. I'm not sure how Fleming is slept on? Maybe because he played in a lower conference? I would say that's actually why is a little bit of a risk because we don't have a lot of data against good competition.
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Clayton Jr - It is the age, says that for many freshman it would a very good outcome if they ended up as good as Clayton is now. Thinks he fits the mold of smaller guys like Brunson, FVV, and Pritchard. Undersized, but physically strong and stout.

Traore - Cites that the numbers don't actually love him and that he likes him just based on the film. Echoes what a wise man here said: He should be seen in the same boat as Fears who is consistently ranked higher.

Fleming - I think we just have a skewed perspective around here. Has him as a mid first round pick, which is where I think a lot of us have him, but is ranked much lower than that on major outles. Cites that he is very likely to be a good defender.

I wish he talked more about Saraf. He has Saraf as high as anyone and I don't see much Saraf talk at all from anyone.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
With Ace you have to talk yourself into him being Ant (not his game but with the red flags) or like Tatum had a lot of that Mamba Mentality that had to be weeded out. Ant had some weird interviews... some flaws in his game... and played for an unserious team. Ant was a much better prospect but you are hoping some of this is just immaturity and the other stuff can be redirected. If they are actually coachable (like interviews I can see drawing some wild stuff out of an 18-19 yo) and a hard worker... that is will be what matters most.

I think the way its trending there is like a 30-50% chance its Ace that is available at 5. I can see a team trading up for him and jumping us (Wizards would be the first candidate)... if he landed at 5 I'd be fine making that bet or taking him and sliding back for someone else we believe in... if there is a nice premium.
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I think Ace is really funny, I actually like his personality. It's just the way he talks about his own game that I dislike. With Ant, he was unserious but he kind of plays exactly how he does now than he did in college. He didn't shoot well, but he shot a ton of 3's at Georgia. All he really needed to do is go to the hoop more and lock in on defense. He didn't have to change as much as Ace will.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I can see Clayton Jr being slept on based on his age. I can kind of see Traore being slept on based on being an international prospect that people don't get to see and having his numbers tanked by a potentially unrepresentative sample. I'm not sure how Fleming is slept on? Maybe because he played in a lower conference? I would say that's actually why is a little bit of a risk because we don't have a lot of data against good competition.
Click to expand...
I kind of feel like I have watched the Clayton Jr. movie twice with the Jazz picking the March Madness darling small guard. Both of those picks were decent around 22-30. That's where I would put him value wise. Just don't trade the pick that could become Giannis to get him.
 
Yaxel is a really interesting target at 21 for the Jazz to work out.

He's older, but he also barely started trying until VERY late so you could see him still having a lot of potential growth ahead of him.

The fact that he didn't try at all during high school (to the point of being suspended from his HS teams and kicked out of the house due to lack of trying) gives him a lot of risk, but also a lot of upside because he's probably less far along a diminishing returns curve.
 
If Ace falls to 5 it will be fascinating how strong the offers will be to trade out. I doubt the Ace devaluing is league wide.
 
The difference between Traore and Fears is that Fears shot 85% from the line on very high volume whereas Traore shot 70% from the line.

There's no positive shooting indicators for Traore and neither guy will be good in the NBA without being a high level shooter.

Fears is also an elite flopper which gives him high scoring upside if he can actually manage to become a star and get ref respect.
 
HadAnEffectHere said:
The difference between Traore and Fears is that Fears shot 85% from the line on very high volume whereas Traore shot 70% from the line.

There's no positive shooting indicators for Traore and neither guy will be good in the NBA without being a high level shooter.

Fears is also an elite flopper which gives him high scoring upside if he can actually manage to become a star and get ref respect.
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Neither have to be a high level shooter to be good pros. They just have to be respectable shooters
 
HadAnEffectHere said:
Keyonte is viewed as a better prospect than Whitmore and both are pretty marginal prospects so it was obviously fine
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Key is viewed as a better prospect because he plays for a rebuilding tanking team, Cam went to a team trying to win, therefore he’s had a ton of DNPCD’s and had a lot of garbage time appearances and gets far less time on the court. Had Utah taken him over Key, and Key had gone to Houston roles would be reversed. I still think it was stupid to pass on him twice. He just has more physical tools and higher defensive ceiling. I still don’t think we have an understanding of who Cam is as a player.
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He had a medical red flag along with his personality flag
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Do you recall what his medical red flag was?
 
HadAnEffectHere said:
The difference between Traore and Fears is that Fears shot 85% from the line on very high volume whereas Traore shot 70% from the line.

There's no positive shooting indicators for Traore and neither guy will be good in the NBA without being a high level shooter.

Fears is also an elite flopper which gives him high scoring upside if he can actually manage to become a star and get ref respect.
Click to expand...

The tankathon model has Fears as a projected 36% 3pt shooter and Traore as a projected 35% 3pt shooter. If they both hit those numbers they will be more than fine, especially on the type of shots they are likely to take as lead ball handlers.

I would agree though, that I have more faith in Fear's jumpshot over Traore's after watching the film. However you can't ignore that Traroe averages 7.4ast/36min (1.92ast/to) whereas Fears averages 4.9ast/36min (1.21ast/to).
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Key is viewed as a better prospect because he plays for a rebuilding tanking team, Cam went to a team trying to win, therefore he’s had a ton of DNPCD’s and had a lot of garbage time appearances and gets far less time on the court. Had Utah taken him over Key, and Key had gone to Houston roles would be reversed. I still think it was stupid to pass on him twice. He just has more physical tools and higher defensive ceiling. I still don’t think we have an understanding of who Cam is as a player.

Do you recall what his medical red flag was?
Click to expand...

Whitmore broke his leg twice in HS and has degenerative knees that will probably cause him to have to retire around 31 or 32 years old.
 
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