Following Potential 2025 Draftees

[Elizah Huge]

If you applied Tre fan logic to every prospect then every prospect would look amazing. If every weakness was going to be solved by going to the NBA and isn't actually a weakness because they saw them do it well once, then basically every prospect is Cooper Flagg.

I think it’s quite the opposite. Why are we harping on Tre’s weaknesses and acting like he can’t improve? Let’s do it for every prospect:

People talk about Tre’s playmaking and passing, Ace is way worse. Tre had double the AST% and almost 3x the assists.

Harper’s off the dribble shooting isn’t great at all.

VJ can’t beat players off the dribble and his off the dribble shooting is terrible too. It’s hard to see his offensive role expanding in the league.

I could go on and on. It’s all about projecting with these guys.

 

[KqWIN]

I mean... it's not impossible he improves. I just want us to know exactly what we are betting on if we pick him and not be delusional about the chance he improves in ways that would make him not just efficient scorer, but also primary offense initiator of a great offense.

I think you’re right. We all understand that a player like VJ needs to improve to become a higher usage guy in the NBA, but it is also true that the guys who are already high usage guys need to make some substantial improvement. I’m willing to listen to reasoning as to why one player’s development is more likely than the other, but I think we need to recognize that both situations do indeed require development.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think you’re right. We all understand that a player like VJ needs to improve to become a higher usage guy in the NBA, but it is also true that the guys who are already high usage guys need to make some substantial improvement. I’m willing to listen to reasoning as to why one player’s development is more likely than the other, but I think we need to recognize that both situations do indeed require development.

Based on everything we know it’s easier to believe one player can improve more than others.

 

[KqWIN]

I think it’s quite the opposite. Why are we harping on Tre’s weaknesses and acting like he can’t improve? Let’s do it for every prospect:

People talk about Tre’s playmaking and passing, Ace is way worse. Tre had double the AST% and almost 3x the assists.

Harper’s off the dribble shooting isn’t great at all.

VJ can’t beat players off the dribble and his off the dribble shooting is terrible too. It’s hard to see his offensive role expanding in the league.

I could go on and on. It’s all about projecting with these guys.

So the real discussion is about what is required to make improvements and how likely it is for that player to make those improvements. I don’t actually think passing is the main problem people have with Tre. The main issues are his ability to attack the basket and his defense. If he’s was able to attack the basket, I don’t think people would take too much issue with his playmaking.

I haven’t found the arguments about why Tre’s rim pressure and defense will improve that convincing tbh. The two things I hear a lot for these two things are 1) it’s easier in the NBA (which is flat out false) and 2) he has good measurables so he can play defense.

 

[KqWIN]

Based on everything we know it’s easier to believe one player can improve more than others.

Based on what? You say “everything we know” and people regurgitate false statements over and over.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Coward officially staying in the draft.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean... it's not impossible he improves. I just want us to know exactly what we are betting on if we pick him and not be delusional about the chance he improves in ways that would make him not just efficient scorer, but also primary offense initiator of a great offense.

You're drafting an elite shooter with size and athletic ability. The threat of his shot will unlock the rest of his game.

 

[Elizah Huge]

So the real discussion is about what is required to make improvements and how likely it is for that player to make those improvements. I don’t actually think passing is the main problem people have with Tre. The main issues are his ability to attack the basket and his defense. If he’s was able to attack the basket, I don’t think people would take too much issue with his playmaking.

I haven’t found the arguments about why Tre’s rim pressure and defense will improve that convincing tbh. The two things I hear a lot for these two things are 1) it’s easier in the NBA (which is flat out false) and 2) he has good measurables so he can play defense.

Well, Tre said he needs to work on defense and said he was playing through injuries. I think that’s a good start. Whereas Ace says he has no weaknesses.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Based on what? You say “everything we know” and people regurgitate false statements over and over.

I’ve posted Tre’s offensive analytics compared to others. It’s like a different galaxy. Sorry his rim pressure and rim rate isn’t as good. He’s not god.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you applied Tre fan logic to every prospect then every prospect would look amazing. If every weakness was going to be solved by going to the NBA and isn't actually a weakness because they saw them do it well once, then basically every prospect is Cooper Flagg.

We arent applying it to every prospect. We are applying it to Tre Johnson because Johnson has an elite skill with the size/athletic ability to grow his game.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think it’s quite the opposite. Why are we harping on Tre’s weaknesses and acting like he can’t improve? Let’s do it for every prospect:

People talk about Tre’s playmaking and passing, Ace is way worse. Tre had double the AST% and almost 3x the assists.

Harper’s off the dribble shooting isn’t great at all.

VJ can’t beat players off the dribble and his off the dribble shooting is terrible too. It’s hard to see his offensive role expanding in the league.

I could go on and on. It’s all about projecting with these guys.

We do talk about other player's weaknesses, what are you talking about?

And we should absolutely be able to talk about strengths and weaknesses on a message board.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You just cant act like every prospect is going to do what most prospects do. Some will improve and some wont. That's why it's called projecting. Players will be exceptions to the rule and some wont and you have to selectively apply projection to some and not to others.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We do talk about other player's weaknesses, what are you talking about?

And we should absolutely be able to talk about strengths and weaknesses on a message board.

Nobody is saying you can’t lol. I think it’s very skewed towards one player more than others.

I would like to see more Ace and VJ discussions as well.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Also, I openly admit I’m chasing a potential offensive engine with our pick. VJ and Kon are the safer higher floor guys. I want Tre or Ace.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I just think Tre will thrive under Hardy.

Clarkson improved a ton on his playmaking/rim pressure under Hardy. It's just he's older and the shotmaking part of his game fell off.

 

[KqWIN]

Well, Tre said he needs to work on defense and said he was playing through injuries. I think that’s a good start. Whereas Ace says he has no weaknesses.

We should do this with every player. The point of the post you replied to is that we do have to 1) recognize that substantial development is needed 2) analyze how realistic that development is.

I’ve posted Tre’s offensive analytics compared to others. It’s like a different galaxy. Sorry his rim pressure and rim rate isn’t as good. He’s not god.

Ok, but those things don’t exactly address the concerns one may have with Tre. You’re right, he isn’t god. That’s the point we’re making. We talk about the strengths and weaknesses with every player. We are indeed trying to project these players, we’re not trying to be fans defending their honor.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I just think Tre will thrive under Hardy.

Clarkson improved a ton on his playmaking/rim pressure under Hardy. It's just he's older and the shotmaking part of his game fell off.

That’s another thing. Tre is tailored made for Hardy’s system

 

[SoberasHotRod]

You just cant act like every prospect is going to do what most prospects do. Some will improve and some wont. That's why it's called projecting. Players will be exceptions to the rule and some wont and you have to selectively apply projection to some and not to others.

People selectively apply things to prospects they like and unevenly to prospects they don't.

And honestly for a message board it's fine.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

People selectively apply things to prospects they like and unevenly to prospects they don't.

And honestly for a message board it's fine.

And I will honestly tell people they are wrong when they fade Tre.

 

[Elizah Huge]

You guys say we talk about other players weaknesses but we really don’t enough. Like people saying they’re out on Tre… you’re going to be out on everyone with that outlook.