Because they choose to be.
General Mattis To Resign
- Thread starter Zombie
- Start date
Red
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we abandoned allies that fought alongside us in Vietnam too. Now it's the Kurds turn to learn abandonment is how we repay those who laid down their lives fighting along side us.
I don't want to be the world's policeman. We have 800 bases around the world. We are the imperial power of this age. But I think we have done things that bring dishonor upon us.
I do not have the answers to the problems that are spinning out of control in the Mideast. I do not know how the Shia and Sunni Muslims solve their age long differences. I do not know how the power struggle for control of the Mideast being waged, directly, and by proxy, between Iran and Saudi Arabia, will be diffused. But I do know we did thrust ourselves into that struggle. I do know that Trump chose Saudi Arabia, and abandoned the agreement with Iran.
We should not think for one second that the allliance of the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia vs. Iran and its proxies and allies is suddenly no more. Our Senate passed a resolution to end American assistance in Saudi Arabia and Iran's proxy war in Yemen. Do you think for one second that Trump will abandon the Saudi's interests here? Yemen is now the worst humanitarian crisis since the end of WWII. Over 100,000 children dying from starvation. Do you think Trump gives a damn about that war more then he gives a damn about the $$$ he makes from Saudis?
But we can be sure, that in the case of the Kurds, we are once again saying to an ally that trusted us and died along side us "F you, thanks, you're on your own now. Best of luck".
Red
Well-Known Member
"Trump has won, which is an obvious fact, but not everyone is willing to accept this victory,” Mr. Putin said. “They have been doing their utmost to delegitimize their president.”
Mattis made it clear in his resignation letter that he cannot agree with a president who abandons our alliances and embraces our adversaries.
I suspect, at this point, that Trump simply does not, and never has, had America's best interests in mind. I suspect the reason lies in this direction:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...rrett-graff-thinks-so/?utm_term=.4beeee7705df
"The completely inconceivable idea that . . . the president of the United States is an active agent of Russian intelligence, no longer seems completely unthinkable.”
Yeah, you can conclude that Trump does not listen to advisors, does not read briefings, is only interested in appeasing his base, and that's all true, but you can also see his efforts to advance Russia's interests, when he is able, as based on more then just Trump acting on his gut feelings, or keeping promises to his base. I am willing to believe that we put a traitor in office. That is likely the most extreme way to interpret Trump's foreign policy up to this point, but I do believe it's a very real possibility.
Red
Well-Known Member
Ideally, our elections should be free of underhanded interference from a foreign power. The degree to which Putin and Russia did just that in our 2016 election is simply not the actions of a friend. It really seems like the actions of an enemy.
Or do you think Putin was thinking alongside these lines: "I love America so much. What can I do to help them? Perhaps we can help Trump become their president. That would be so good for their well being, and I love them so much, and I love the ideals they claim to stand for. Let's do it, and let's keep it a secret. They have such pride, they would be so embarrassed if they knew we cared this much and were helping them like this."
Sure, it would be great if America and Russia were the best of friends. But they have not acted as friends, and Russia is nothing but a mafia state, an alliance of Putin, oligarchs, and intelligence agencies in a well oiled criminal enterprise. They are a criminal state. Dissenters, esp. journalists, are routinely murdered. I would be more discriminating when choosing who I want as a friend. Of course, our own president is the Don of a criminal family, so I can see why Putin and Trump might admire each other and feel a kinship.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
So called allies? We understand that our allies embroiled in that Syrian civil war are doing so because we plunged them into war in Iraq, right? Without Iraq, it’s very unlikely we would’ve seen an Arab spring, Syrian civil war, and rise of ISIS (an offshoot of al queda iraq).
So before we insult our allies as being “so called” maybe we should show them some respect?
And absolutely every decision should be made with allies in mind. That’s called, “being a good ally.” We shouldn’t emulate Russia.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Right? Why do so many Americans not understand this? Are they really so reliant on Fox News propaganda that they don't understand that Russia is one of the worst countries in the world? Their record on human rights, freedom of the press, and anti-democratic aggression in the world makes them the west's #1 enemy. And it's not like this is anything new. They've been our biggest enemy since the close of WWII with a brief intermission in the 1990s.
I think a lot of posters here could benefit by learning just basics on the history of the previous century. Just basics that Fox News and Breitbart obviously either ignore or twist to promote their anti-democratic agendas.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I think this move was alarming for several reasons:
#1 It appears to be a big Christmas gift to Putin. Which brings up the question, how many other policies are being influenced by our President who's clearly favoring the world's worst dictator? How much is this going to hurt the west? Donald chants, "America First" but his actions scream, "America LAST."
#2 It signals to the world that we are weak, retreating, and clearly disorganized. Our government is in complete chaos. If our enemies want to hit us hard they could easily do so right now and have great success.
#3 It destroys relationships with allies. Alliances are built over long periods of trust. Donald ruined all of that in one tweet without notifying anyone of importance about it. Why trust in America anymore?
#4 With China and Russia becoming increasingly more aggressive, we need to hold the western alliance together. This doesn't do that. If Russia invaded Ukraine today, would we have a response? If the answer is no, then we have major problems. I think we all know what the answer is...
#1 It appears to be a big Christmas gift to Putin. Which brings up the question, how many other policies are being influenced by our President who's clearly favoring the world's worst dictator? How much is this going to hurt the west? Donald chants, "America First" but his actions scream, "America LAST."
#2 It signals to the world that we are weak, retreating, and clearly disorganized. Our government is in complete chaos. If our enemies want to hit us hard they could easily do so right now and have great success.
#3 It destroys relationships with allies. Alliances are built over long periods of trust. Donald ruined all of that in one tweet without notifying anyone of importance about it. Why trust in America anymore?
#4 With China and Russia becoming increasingly more aggressive, we need to hold the western alliance together. This doesn't do that. If Russia invaded Ukraine today, would we have a response? If the answer is no, then we have major problems. I think we all know what the answer is...
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Well, I for one dont feel they had any influence on my decision, and I doubt they influenced anybody to vote for Trump. He didnt need Russia at all. Its a false narrative that they had any impact.
Im highly suspect of your sincerity of caring about rigged elections when Hillary rigged the DNC, yet you and many others had no problem voting for her when you knew what she did. Also, you dont seem to care too much about non citizens voting. Which has far more of an impact on the results than whatever Russia supposedly did. So all this dismay about rigged elections coming from the left is just BS.
On another note. I dont think anyone in the US has any right to complain about outside influence on elections when the US is notorious for interfering with other countries affairs.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Hilarious! I didn't know this was still a thing. Are Repubs still making this weird and baseless claim?
We all understand that the only cases of voting fraud have been repubs and the major cases of election fraud have been committed by republican campaigns, right? Google: North Carolina Election Fraud.
That actually happened, unlike these weird Qanon/Trump claims that Jose Sixpack voted 10,000 times in Kansas for Hillary.
Red
Well-Known Member
I had no problem voting for her because her opponent was a very obvious demagogue, who I had seen urge violence upon people like myself at his rallies, and whom I had seen create scapegoats like the demagogue he was. I voted for her to keep him out of the Oval Office, and nothing that has happened since has shown I made the wrong choice.
Yeah, we had it coming, so we needed to keep our mouths shut when we knew our chief post war adversary was attacking us by weaponizing the Internet and adding it to their "active measures toolkit. There's nothing I can do now about our interference in places like Chile decades ago, but because it happened, I need to lay down and take it when my country is attacked. Brilliant argument on your part. Sorry, I stand up for my country. You lie down, well, that's your choice, not mine.
I doubt what you're saying is true at all. But I doubt their allies at Cambridge Analytica would have been targeting people like myself in the first place. Analyzing my Facebook feed would have told them it was a waste of time. Can't say the same for every American.
Red
Well-Known Member
You may question my sincerity till you're blue in the face. But, I was fortunate in knowing more then a little regarding the history of demagogues who came to power, especially examples from Western Europe in the 20th century. And Trump displayed all the signs of being just such a misguided and opportunistic demagogue. With a keen sense of how to play on the fears, anxieties, anger, and sense of being left behind by a portion of the electorate, in a culture undergoing change, as reflected in our culture wars.
My choice was truly as no brainier a choice as I have ever seen presented in any presidential election in my lifetime. The first two years of Trump's administration has clearly confirmed my concerns were justified. I see that my education came in handy, to say the least. Whatever else my faults and failings, sleepwalking through that portion of history that is mine to live will never be one of those failings.
WRONG
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Clearly the Donald didn’t read Mattis’s resignation letter. It wasn’t until Fox News explained it to him that he realized What it actually said.
From what I gather, his replacement is a contractor. He’s not a General. Interesting.
Trump only hires the best, right?
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I’m curious what military personnel think about this major diss to Mattis? Trump isn’t winning support among the military with his erratic and disrespectful moves, right?
Partially correct. A few would would be.
I would agree China is a greater threat economically.
I think China is the greater threat across the board. Militarily, economically, politically...
framer
Well-Known Member
I mean, you would have to be ignorant to argue otherwise. Also add technologically.
I used to joke when people would talk about the money we owe China that "you have to be able to collect." Well, China is working on being able to collect. They are also patient and relentless. Let's not forget that they also have the most people and a pretty huge landmass.
China ain't no joke.
Russians? Meh, nation of drunk men and hot women.
Russia is the yapping *** lap dog that won’t ever do real damage.
China is a young pitbull. Not a full threat yet. But with time and opportunity...