Gobert extension value?

[Jazz4ever]

Why did Greek Freak sign the extension? Does he not clearly have more upside than Gobert? I think the Jazz might be able to convince Rudy and his agent to sign for what Greek Freak got and get the deal over with now.

Very slightly, not much of an uptrend in Giannis' shooting numbers. For all practical purposes, Giannis got the max. He will average 25 million a year over the next 4. They saved 6 million over the life of his contract by extending him vs waiting for a max and matching it.

So 6 million is 6 million. If you know Gobert is getting that max offer do you value 6 million in the pocket over being able to sign a low impact free agent next off season? The Jazz can't really afford any Joe Johnson level free agents next year with Favors, Hayward looming. Exum and Hood are not too far off. Not to mention the desire to possibly extend Hill as well.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Any cap experts here project what his max extension could be? Pros/Cons of Rudy signing an extension this year?

I think there are 2 weeks left so talks will probably get serious soon

So, here is my question. Gobert makes like $1.17 million in 2016 - 2017. I have read that others suggest he will make $75 - $90 for a 4 year contract? That's a total of about $19 - $22 million per year.

My question is... can we tear up the current contract ($1.17 million) and resign Gobert paying him more in 2016/2017 NOW but less in the next 4 years.

No salary boost until 2017. AKA... $80 million/4 year contract (low market value) plus $1.17 in 2016. Say:

2016 - $1.17
2017 - $19
2018 - $20
2019 - $21
2020 - $22
Total w/out extending now = $83.17

New contract in 2016 accessing a year more of extra pay for Gobert in exchange for future relief for the Jazz. Totals are similar, but annual is discounted. Say:

2016 - $16
2017 - $17
2018 - $18
2019 - $19
2020 - $21 million
Total income by Gobert by/2020 = $91 million

Why Gobert does this? He gets paid well NOW and for 4 total years guaranteed. Plus he makes upwards of $8 million more on a value contract. He gets to renegotiate his next contract in 2019 as opposed to 2020. If in 2020 he is playing well, he will be ready for an extension and will get another big contract (one that is not trading cap room as a bonus). Come 2020 he will be 30. If he waits to resign at the end of the season he will be 31 which will make teams afraid to commit big bucks to an 'old big'. I suspect he will leave money on the table due to age. So, long term, he gets a better contract at 30 then at 31 imho. So, if you carry it out, he will likely make more over his career by banking the extra $14 million in 2016 vs. waiting until 2017 to be paid a little more.

Why the Jazz does this? It gives us more flexibility in the future in exchange for getting closer to the cap in 2016. We are basically exchanging current flexibility (which we have in spades) for future flexibility (which way probably won't have if we want to keep the core). We are then leveraging our current cap space against future cap space that will not be there in the next year or two. We probably pay Gobert more, but it is spread out in a way that we have cap relief to put a better team on the court. Paying Gobert more now would give a player $14+ million more than we are currently contractually obligated to do in 2016, but it makes sense. We also probably don't use the DP player status that I have heard bounced around here a bit (although I still don't understand it as it goes in the NBA).

So, my two questions:

1. Can the Jazz tear up the current contract and renegotiate this way? If so, it makes lots of sense to me.

2. Why wouldn't Gobert do it? He would be making $1.17 to play the free agency market hoping to get more $$$... That I understand, but he leaves $14 million guaranteed on the table now to make possibly $5 - $6 more over the course of his next contract. Perhaps he expects to make Hassan Whiteside $$$, but he hasn't made the same impact as Whiteside (4 yr - $98 million).

Just for fun I will do the same numbers based on Hassan Whiteside's monster contract (4 years/$98 million) and raising Gobert a bit each year on the payment plan including 2016:

High market value matching Hassan Whiteside (4 years/$98 million + 1 year/$1.17 million).

2016 - $1.17
2017 - $24.5
2018 - $24.5
2019 - $24.5
2020 - $24.5
Total w/out extending now = $99.17

Jazz tear up current contract and pay in 2016, but at a 20% discounted rate annually. 4 years starting 2016/ $78 million). Say:

2016 - $18
2017 - $19
2018 - $20
2019 - $21
2020 - (expected $23)
Total = $78 million
Total income by Gobert by/2020 = $101 million

He makes more by us renegotiating his contract in 2016. Plus he gets more now that he can play with in 2016. It seems to me that this should be our current focus to shore up 2017 funds. We may even consider front loading the contract to leverage current salaries and future salaries even more. Say:

2016 - $22
2017 - $17
2018 - $17
2019 - $17
2020 - expected $21
Total income by Gobert by/2020 = $94 million
(Lower market value)

2016: $24
2017: $18
2018: $18
2019: $18
2020 - expected $23
Total income by Gobert by/2020 = $101 million
(Matching high market value - Whiteside)

It's an accounting trick that would save the Jazz $5 million+ per year to be able to keep Hood and Hayward both. Or Hood and Exum. Flexibility to keep who we want.

 

[BTP]

Did you research whether restructuring a rookie contract is even possible?

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

That's one of my main questions. If so, then I would tear up the curgent contract and sign a brand new one giving him the big bucks now at a discounted rate. It works for everyone if it is OK by the league.

 

[framer]

That's one of my main questions. If so, then I would tear up the curgent contract and sign a brand new one giving him the big bucks now at a discounted rate. It works for everyone if it is OK by the league.

Isn't that what Cleveland wanted to do with Boozer, then he bailed after the "tearing up" part for a lot more money elsewhere? I think they discourage that now.

 

[♪alt13]

These guys are our guys. They're not FAs from elsewhere, the Jazz can go over the cap. Jazzfanz deserve it and we deserve a stable team. Avoid the poison pill, extend these guys, reclaim at least some of the consistent competitiveness this franchise once had.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

These guys are our guys. They're not FAs from elsewhere, the Jazz can go over the cap. Jazzfanz deserve it and we deserve a stable team. Avoid the poison pill, extend these guys, reclaim at least some of the consistent competitiveness this franchise once had.

You don't extend a player early unless you get a discount. Giving an early extension you should be able to shave at least a million per year off because you are giving security to the player. What if Gobert suffers some sort of catastrophic injury? I'm sure the Jazz have had discussions with his agent along the lines of "we will extend for a small discount now or you can wait and we will fully extend". No reason for Gobert to go out and sign a "poison pill" contract in that case.

The whole Hayward situation happened because DL was really playing hardball and was banking on all the teams running out of money and not having enough money to offer Hayward a max.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

So, does that mean you CAN sign an extension by cancelling the current contract? If so, that makes a lot of sense to me. It's a win win. I am sure that you could put a simple contract out that says the contract you currently have is null and void ONLY once the new contract has been signed. If you cannot do this, I haven't seen where it says so. It may be a work around for NBA contracts that the league has said you cannot do so players can compete on the open market. But heck, it's a bird in hand and if all parties agree I don't see why not.

Jazz would be taking on more risk, but gaining flexibility. Injury risk goes up by 1 season in exchange the player gets plenty of bonuses. I still haven't seen anyone say why you cannot do this...

 

[Jazz4ever]

So, does that mean you CAN sign an extension by cancelling the current contract? If so, that makes a lot of sense to me. It's a win win. I am sure that you could put a simple contract out that says the contract you currently have is null and void ONLY once the new contract has been signed. If you cannot do this, I haven't seen where it says so. It may be a work around for NBA contracts that the league has said you cannot do so players can compete on the open market. But heck, it's a bird in hand and if all parties agree I don't see why not.

Jazz would be taking on more risk, but gaining flexibility. Injury risk goes up by 1 season in exchange the player gets plenty of bonuses. I still haven't seen anyone say why you cannot do this...

Not possible. It was different with Boozer. The Cavs had an option year (3rd year) on Boozer's rookie contract being he was a 2nd round pick. They declined the bargain basement option in a "wink, wink" deal which fast forwarded Boozer to restricted free agency. The alleged agreement was Boozer would immediately resign with the Cavs for 6/41 and not listen to offers. A decent raise, but he would have been clearly lowballed through most of his prime. The Jazz offered 6/70 which was huge money at the time - probably more than Boozer could wildly imagine he'd be offered. We know the rest.

Gobert is a first round pick so he has no option to get out of the rookie contract early. The only way would be a buyout, but that means putting him on waivers first and some other team would obviously claim him and pay his salary. Just about any loopholes have been closed up in the last CBA.

 

[Keefe]

Only have 11+ more days to extend now.

 

[silesian]

Jazzfanz deserve it and we deserve a stable team. Avoid the poison pill, extend these guys, reclaim at least some of the consistent competitiveness this franchise once had.

If they go over the cap, they are very limited in what they can do in free agency (exceptions only), so going over the cap can also hurt team quality. It is not merely a financial issue.

 

[BTP]

If Gobert wants a max, he'll worst case sign a sheet with another team, 4 yrs - 4.5% raises. Restricted free agency always overpay on offer sheets yadayada(you said yourself he's near max)

the 5 year franchise tag only affects early extensions of rookie contracts. If he's signing this summer, he'd be their franchise tag. Next summer they can use his bird rights and still offer him 5 years max regardless if someone else has the franchise tag(loophole they forgot)

So yes, he'll get max regardless of Whiteside's contract.

And there were ppl here arguing 80/4 was his market value for an early extension.
You can also take my word that the Jazz offered Hayward's agent restructuring his contract, if he was interested in doing so.