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I never read anywhere that we offered Millsap an extension. I think AJ and Millsap so the writing on the wall, the Jazz were going full rebuild mode. My biggest complaint about the Jazz is how they have mismanaged contract negotiations. The Jazz have left Matthews, Millsap, AJ go without any compensation. They allowed Millsap to sign the poison pill offer sheet with Trailblazers.

Then they went out and told the world they would match any offer for Hayward when there were signs that Hayward and the Jazz original offer wasn't that far apart. Instead they can't get the deal done and then have to over pay for him (yea I know some people don't think we overpaid). For the most part Hayward has earned his contract so far but I still think they could have handled it better. I also think they overpaid for Burks too. I love ALec's potential but his inconsistency didn't warrant s
 
cowhide said:
I never read anywhere that we offered Millsap an extension. I think AJ and Millsap so the writing on the wall, the Jazz were going full rebuild mode. My biggest complaint about the Jazz is how they have mismanaged contract negotiations. The Jazz have left Matthews, Millsap, AJ go without any compensation. They allowed Millsap to sign the poison pill offer sheet with Trailblazers.

Then they went out and told the world they would match any offer for Hayward when there were signs that Hayward and the Jazz original offer wasn't that far apart. Instead they can't get the deal done and then have to over pay for him (yea I know some people don't think we overpaid). For the most part Hayward has earned his contract so far but I still think they could have handled it better. I also think they overpaid for Burks too. I love ALec's potential but his inconsistency didn't warrant s
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I don't see how you can criticize BOTH the Hayward and Burks deals because they are opposite sides of the coin. Either you support the way they did Burks or you support the way they did Hayward in principle. Obviously you don't get to use the crystal ball of hindsight and know exactly the future worth of each player. I suspect that the Jazz had in mind what THEY valued each player at and offered the players close to that amount. Sometimes the player took it, sometimes they didn't. When they don't they get to test free agency. Sometimes that works out for the player (Hayward) sometimes it doesn't (Millsap last season.)
 
freakazoid said:
Right, so let's just make a policy of letting assets walk away for nothing, rather than learning from our mistakes. Also, there's a difference between unrestricted and restricted free agents. I still have my doubts as to whether or not Sap really ever considered coming back to a team he didn't want to match his last contract, and had regressed significantly over the last 2 years he was here. The mistake was not trading him.



Lol at judging any of our contracts right now. Burks extension doesn't even start until next year, but I'm sure he is done developing. He'll probably never be better than he is right now.
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Freak killing it.
 
cowhide said:
I never read anywhere that we offered Millsap an extension. I think AJ and Millsap so the writing on the wall, the Jazz were going full rebuild mode. My biggest complaint about the Jazz is how they have mismanaged contract negotiations. The Jazz have left Matthews, Millsap, AJ go without any compensation. They allowed Millsap to sign the poison pill offer sheet with Trailblazers.

Then they went out and told the world they would match any offer for Hayward when there were signs that Hayward and the Jazz original offer wasn't that far apart. Instead they can't get the deal done and then have to over pay for him (yea I know some people don't think we overpaid). For the most part Hayward has earned his contract so far but I still think they could have handled it better. I also think they overpaid for Burks too. I love ALec's potential but his inconsistency didn't warrant s
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The Jazz offered Millsap the most money they could (most allowable due to his old contract with respect to raises in the CBA) in an extension, it was a 4 year, $32 million offer. He refused it because he wanted more money. He got slightly more per year with ATL. The Jazz knew he would refuse the offer, but they had to offer it because it would have been a great deal.
 
freakazoid said:
Unless he had two uncles, the strong statements made came from his other agent, but it doesn't really matter. If Sap didn't feel disrespected and wanted Utah to match, I somehow doubt his agent would be telling the press the opposite. If there is some kind of proof that it was just his Uncle and not Sap who didn't want us to match, I've never seen it.
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This wasn't some negotiation tactic for more money. The contract was signed and the message not to match was pretty clear, IMO,. No Uncle agent is going to piss off his cash cow by telling the press the opposite of what his client wants.
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This whole discussion is moot, anyway. Sap isn't leaving the #1 seed to come to Utah. I'm guessing the dreamers believe he'd come back to come off the bench. He's not starting over Favors or Rudy. They've both earned their ****ing spots.
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I am one of the dreamers that hope we get Sap, but I also realize it is probably a pipe dream, and our money would be better spent elsewhere. But just think of how devastating a 3 big rotation of Rudy, Favors and Sap would be. Assuming Favors and Rudy can play together, we would basically have one of the best frontcourts for all 96 minutes of the game. And at the end of games, they could play together with a lineup of Exum, Hayward, Sap, Favors and Rudy.
 
b_line said:
I am one of the dreamers that hope we get Sap, but I also realize it is probably a pipe dream, and our money would be better spent elsewhere. But just think of how devastating a 3 big rotation of Rudy, Favors and Sap would be. Assuming Favors and Rudy can play together, we would basically have one of the best frontcourts for all 96 minutes of the game. And at the end of games, they could play together with a lineup of Exum, Hayward, Sap, Favors and Rudy.
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Nothing wrong with dreaming, and I love me some Sap, but at the end of the day we're dreaming of a starter on a contender leaving to come back to a lottery team to come off the bench. Yep, pipe dream. Maybe in a few years when Utah is contending, but not happening this offseason. Towns/Okafor/Mudiay is more realistic IMO. Bulls got Rose by winning the lottery from the 8th(?) spot with a 1.7% chance, so you never know. I like to dream, too.:cool:
 
freakazoid said:
Nothing wrong with dreaming, and I love me some Sap, but at the end of the day we're dreaming of a starter on a contender leaving to come back to a lottery team to come off the bench. Yep, pipe dream. Maybe in a few years when Utah is contending, but not happening this offseason. Towns/Okafor/Mudiay is more realistic IMO. Bulls got Rose by winning the lottery from the 8th(?) spot with a 1.7% chance, so you never know. I like to dream, too.:cool:
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Yeah that Atlanta gig is so awesome that there are two possible buyers wanting to relocate that team to Seattle. Even when they play well, that city is a mess for basketball. It is long past time that they moved the NBA out of there. I wouldn't be surprised to see Millsap cash out. We just won't have the money to pay him unless we figure the Kanter thing out.
 
framer said:
Yeah that Atlanta gig is so awesome that there are two possible buyers wanting to relocate that team to Seattle. Even when they play well, that city is a mess for basketball. It is long past time that they moved the NBA out of there. I wouldn't be surprised to see Millsap cash out. We just won't have the money to pay him unless we figure the Kanter thing out.
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You might be right. I recently read an article about how most NBA players value a rich team history over winning all the time. When asked how important starting was, most players where adamant that they'd rather come off the bench for a lottery team with a good crowd, that start on a contender where it wasn't as loud. TBH, I'm a little surprised Millsap hasn't tried to force a trade back to Utah by now. He has to be suffering.
 
freakazoid said:
You might be right. I recently read an article about how most NBA players value a rich team history over winning all the time. When asked how important starting was, most players where adamant that they'd rather come off the bench for a lottery team with a good crowd, that start on a contender where it wasn't as loud. TBH, I'm a little surprised Millsap hasn't tried to force a trade back to Utah by now. He has to be suffering.
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I don't think Millsap is coming to Utah. I'm just not convinced that anyone actually stays in Atlanta. Name anyone who screams "Atlanta Hawks" to you outside of Dominique Wilkins.
 
framer said:
Yeah that Atlanta gig is so awesome that there are two possible buyers wanting to relocate that team to Seattle. Even when they play well, that city is a mess for basketball. It is long past time that they moved the NBA out of there. I wouldn't be surprised to see Millsap cash out. We just won't have the money to pay him unless we figure the Kanter thing out.
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Anyone know the rules for rescindng a qualifying offer and for picking up (or not) the option year on a contract? If contracts can't be officially signed until July 10th, but negotiations can begin on July 1st, it seems the Jazz would have 10 days to see if they can get Millsap or another comparable FA to sign with them before they'd have to officially commit to Enes. If Millsap, they'd likely have to not give Kanter a QO AND not pick up the option on Booker. With other FA's, they could promise their MLE and still keep Enes and Booker.

The main reason I give Utah even a chance at landing Paul or DMC is Quin Snyder. As the assistant coach, he would have worked the closest with both of them. Add those two to Utah and the Jazz are in the playoffs.
 
framer said:
I don't think Millsap is coming to Utah. I'm just not convinced that anyone actually stays in Atlanta. Name anyone who screams "Atlanta Hawks" to you outside of Dominique Wilkins.
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I think you underestimate being part of something like where Atlanta is right now. They have the best record in the East. I don't know about anybody else, but if I was a player like Sap who had been on a lot of mediocre/bad teams, I'd want to hold on to that situation as long as I could. This has to be the best season of his career by far, and I'm not talking about personal performance.
 
Mark Eaton was at the Ute game the other day, Eaton didn't do much offensively but he did have a sweeping hook shot he'd take every once in a while. If Rudy can develop a hook shot I'd feel a lot better about him. Right now it's just all dunks and layups.
 
I don't know what kind of asset you could have gotten for an underperforming undersized power forward on the last year of his deal. A second round pick? Teams aren't giving up a lot for expirings anymore. Maybe that's worth it but I'm convinced that most people have an inflated view of second round picks right now.
 
Julie Greengiant said:
I don't know what kind of asset you could have gotten for an underperforming undersized power forward on the last year of his deal. A second round pick? Teams aren't giving up a lot for expirings anymore. Maybe that's worth it but I'm convinced that most people have an inflated view of second round picks right now.
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Are you saying Millsap was underperforming?
 
Stifle Tower said:
Anyone know the rules for rescindng a qualifying offer and for picking up (or not) the option year on a contract? If contracts can't be officially signed until July 10th, but negotiations can begin on July 1st, it seems the Jazz would have 10 days to see if they can get Millsap or another comparable FA to sign with them before they'd have to officially commit to Enes. If Millsap, they'd likely have to not give Kanter a QO AND not pick up the option on Booker. With other FA's, they could promise their MLE and still keep Enes and Booker.
.
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Sorry, won`t work:

"In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player between the day following the last game of the NBA Finals and June 30."
 
freakazoid said:
I think you underestimate being part of something like where Atlanta is right now. They have the best record in the East. I don't know about anybody else, but if I was a player like Sap who had been on a lot of mediocre/bad teams, I'd want to hold on to that situation as long as I could. This has to be the best season of his career by far, and I'm not talking about personal performance.
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+lots.

So many players play for countless years for mediocre teams with no perspective, it must feel like groundhog day where you go to the next game, lose it more than often, than to the next one, and the next one, and the next season, and the next one, and boom you have spent 5/7 years in no man's land.... For a player to suddenly find himself in a winning situation where he can genuinely hope to perform in the playoffs with his group is a massive change, particularly when he feels he is part of the core, at the heart of the adventure. You rarely go away from that willingly. You do it only if you get massive financial offers or are lured by the quality of life of a few exceptional locations (LA, NY, Florida...). My bet would be that barring a crazy max offer from somewhere (very unlikely), he signs that biggish longish contract with Atlanta, something like 48mils/4 years.
 
Hedda Gambler said:
Sorry, won`t work:

"In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player between the day following the last game of the NBA Finals and June 30."
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But what are the rules for rescinding a qualifying offer? I can find several instances of teams withdrawing the QO during July. Wondering if it has to be by mutual consent or does a team have a window to do so unilaterally.
 
veji1 said:
+lots.

So many players play for countless years for mediocre teams with no perspective, it must feel like groundhog day where you go to the next game, lose it more than often, than to the next one, and the next one, and the next season, and the next one, and boom you have spent 5/7 years in no man's land.... For a player to suddenly find himself in a winning situation where he can genuinely hope to perform in the playoffs with his group is a massive change, particularly when he feels he is part of the core, at the heart of the adventure. You rarely go away from that willingly. You do it only if you get massive financial offers or are lured by the quality of life of a few exceptional locations (LA, NY, Florida...). My bet would be that barring a crazy max offer from somewhere (very unlikely), he signs that biggish longish contract with Atlanta, something like 48mils/4 years.
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That is neither big nor long. Atlanta is up for sale. They don't even have a GM (IINM, Ferry was suspended). Quality of life can also be where you built friendships over the course of 7 years. It can be where your brother plays, where you have ties to several coaches, including the one who worked with you closely the previous season. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. There are many factors that might lure Paul to Utah. And many that would keep him with the Hawks.
 
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