How Dante's injury could impact the Jazz future

[♪alt13]

None of that changes Burke's ability, or lack thereof, on D. None of it. Anyone's D would be better with Gobert behind them instead of Kanter. None of that changes how often Burke get's beaten.

Now, I am not saying that starting Burke will lead the Jazz back to being horrible at D but the logic used to play up Burke's D is terrible.

Actually those stats makes it look like Exum had little to do with our defensive improvement last year. Seems like it was pretty much all Favors and Gobert.

 

[Stoked]

Yeah, those pesky statistics always seem to get in the way of good solid opinion. I agree that anyone's D would be better with Gobert, but you were blasting Locke for the Kanter "blame game"

He blamed Burke's bad D on Kanter. Kanter's D did suck but that is shoddy work on whitewashing Burke's own poor D.

Gobert can cover for Burke's numerous mistakes so Burke must not really be that bad!

That is directly the Kanter blame game.

Edit: One can pick a stat to support almost anything so yes they can often be miss used.

For example. Burke shot 55% on spot ups so he has good efficiency. When one takes a closer look they realize there is more to the story.

 

[Stoked]

Actually those stats makes it look like Exum had little to do with our defensive improvement last year. Seems like it was pretty much all Favors and Gobert.

Now that is a more logical approach but that is not the way he was presenting them. If that is what he was trying then Jesus he did a bad job.

 

[fishonjazz]

Actually those stats makes it look like Exum had little to do with our defensive improvement last year. Seems like it was pretty much all Favors and Gobert.

This

 

[♪alt13]

Now that is a more logical approach but that is not the way he was presenting them. If that is what he was trying then Jesus he did a bad job.

He did say "to be fair"..."take it for what it's worth"..."may not suck as bad"

 

[fishonjazz]

Gobert can cover for Burke's numerous mistakes so Burke must not really be that bad!
.

Maybe Gobert was covering for Exum mistakes on defense too and that's why Exum looked good defensively?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'd like to see us make a play for Bradley or Collison. We have the assets, we have to use some cap space for next year, (I have no idea what we plan to do with our space next year, but we likely aren't going to sign anyone and there aren't any teams that will likely be giving up assets to take on dead salary), and I don't think that Burke, Neto/Cotton are going to be good enough at the pg spot to get us to the playoffs. I'd be fine with Neto/Cotton backing up someone more proven.

I don't think Collison is available until they are eliminated from the playoff hunt though, but could become fairly cheap. I would hate to try and strike a deal with Ainge (he always wants too much) although they really need to move one of their combo guard types. They also already have 17 guaranteed contracts on their roster. I would trade our first rounder next year (top 3 protected) and a couple unguaranteed guys to get it done. Sadly I think they'd want more.

This has got me all sorts of depressed. Was so excited to see Dante's progression. Although a year sitting on the bench learning may end up helping him long-term.

 

[My2Cents]

He blamed Burke's bad D on Kanter. Kanter's D did suck but that is shoddy work on whitewashing Burke's own poor D.

Gobert can cover for Burke's numerous mistakes so Burke must not really be that bad!

That is directly the Kanter blame game.

Edit: One can pick a stat to support almost anything so yes they can often be miss used.

For example. Burke shot 55% on spot ups so he has good efficiency. When one takes a closer look they realize there is more to the story.

Here's what he said.

Trey Burke defensive rating with Enes Kanter was 110.1. With Rudy Gobert was 99.7. Lots of Trey bad defense was who he was with.

He's making the point that Trey's defensive rating suffered from playing with Kanter. The numbers seem to bear him out. I guess you can interpret that as Locke playing a Kanter blame game if you want, but I don't see it that way. He didn't say Trey was a good defender and Locke also posted the second set of numbers comparing Exum and Burke when playing with Gobert and Favors. It is much easier to play defense on the perimeter when you have great defensive bigs behind you. Opposing guards are less likely to drive and are challenged when they do.

 

[Stoked]

Here's what he said. He's making the point that Trey's defensive rating suffered from playing with Kanter. The numbers seem to bear him out. I guess you can interpret that as Locke playing a Kanter blame game if you want, but I don't see it that way. He didn't say Trey was a good defender and Locke also posted the second set of numbers comparing Exum and Burke when playing with Gobert and Favors. It is much easier to play defense on the perimeter when you have great defensive bigs behind you. Opposing guards are less likely to drive and are challenged when they do.

All those tweets are about whitewashing Burke's bad D. You don't want to see it that way then fine. I do and it's a bad argument.

 

[dong2ha]

Locke is in full spin mode this morning.

He is doing damage control by playing up Burke. Using isolated stats like +/- and saying things like ""Lots of Trey bad defense was who he was with". That's a direct reference and blame game on Kanter.

Horrible logic. Ugh, come on Locke.

he is trying his best... it's better than saying we are ****ed defensively without exum :/ and we will still be fine without him this year. just concerned about his development...


Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Maneesh]

All those tweets are about whitewashing Burke's bad D. You don't want to see it that way then fine. I do and it's a bad argument.

And he is spinning like you say. All of suden Jazz mouthpiece is pretend Burke was all the time fine even though he tries and say he is not before? What is this?

 

[Twin Towers]

Bright side to Dante's injury is Neto will get plenty of playing time and we can find out what we have.

Trey and Neto will most likely split the playing time.

Whoever is playing well will get a bump in minutes. Both should get 24 minutes each.

I think Cotton will play spot minutes or will take some of Neto's minutes if he is playing bad.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Go listen to the Lowe Post... They talk about the Jazz and literally go on a cake baking tangent. I think they are trolling us.

My final thoughts on this before I disappear for a while again. Jazz will have to wait until the season is underway to trade for a point guard replacement. Right now everyone thinks they have a shot and no one will give us what we want at a fair price. Let some stuff play out and take some time to see what Burke/Neto/ Cotton give us... move from there.

 

[My2Cents]

You don't want to see it that way then fine. I do and it's a bad argument.

That doesn't make you right. Locke is a numbers guy so he's tweeting out numbers on something that everyone is talking about. Maybe it's an effort to talk Jazz fans away from the edge, but it's not some big Jazz conspiracy to make everyone think Trey is a great defender.

 

[gregbroncs]

That doesn't make you right. Locke is a numbers guy so he's tweeting out numbers on something that everyone is talking about. Maybe it's an effort to talk Jazz fans away from the edge, but it's not some big Jazz conspiracy to make everyone think Trey is a great defender.

Locke is great at finding stats that fit his current opinion on the team. His current opinion on the team is always the company line that they want to push. ALWAYS. And he will find #'s to fit the new company line as soon as it changes. This is the guy that was loving Kanter till he was traded then he had #'s to show he's not worth it. While he was here he had #'s to show he was a good fit and deserved his minutes. His stats are virtually worthless because he only hunts down the ones that back his standing. And dismisses any that don't, until they serve his purpose that is.

 

[karl malone]

As mentioned above, I think we will likely wait to see what we have in Burke/Neto/Cotton (& their affect on the success of the team). If none of them are able to step in & fill the void, I hope we are able to acquire (at least) an average starting caliber PG (preferably one under contract beyond next year as insurance incase Exum is unable to return/not 100% within a year), which is all I think the team needs to be playoff caliber (which is likely imperative, at least by the following season, in order to retain Hayward- which is likely imperative to the long-term future of the franchise). This is without a doubt a serious setback to the team's long-term development, but luckily there aren't many FO's that I'd rather have dealing with our current situation. There also aren't many coaches that I'd rather have dealing with the situation as I believe Snyder will (hopefully) be able to get Burke to play within the offense (now that he likely feels less pressure to perform in order to retain his starting position) & use Neto's(defense, passing)/Cotton's(up-tempo style) differing skill sets in the correct situations in order to get the most out of our current group of PG's.

 

[stitches]

One of the reasons we decided not to go for broke in this year's free agency is the fact that we were not going to be contenders either way and that by getting starting level PG it would stunt Dante's progress and would take minutes away from him. I thought the timing was absolutely perfect to let him grow into his role while we keep fortifying our identity around lengthy stifling defense(with Exum and Gobert being two of the key pieces in the paint and on the perimeter respectively). At the same time we were a winning team even with Dante on the floor last year and his progress was supposed to keep us in the fight for playoff spots and possibly we could even get in there(we still might).

This injury is absolutely horrible timing-wise. It screws up not only Dante's development, but also the team building and team plan. This 2015/2016 season was supposed to be one more season of internal growth and improvement without the full pressure of playoff pursuit and the main part of that internal growth was supposed to be Dante and him getting to a point where he's useful not only on defense but also on offense. It was supposed to be the year that gives us a better idea of what we can expect from Exum in the future years.

Now we are left hanging in the air. The whole team was already waiting for the PG spot to catch-up with the rest of the team. And that was acceptable because we weren't going to be contenders this season anyways. Now not only there is no chance of the PG core to catch up with the rest of the team, but it's very possible our main PG-piece will be taking a short-term step back when he returns one year in the future. This would mean in the year Hayward can opt out, Exum will be returning from his injury and we will NEED to show some serious potential to contend in order to have a good chance at keeping Hayward.

Now what are the options we have to consider if we think Exum won't be ready to tangibly contribute in year 3?
Do we draft another PG next year and do we think he'd be more capable of contributing than Exum returning from ACL surgery? Do we make a run at some high-level PG either in FA(Mike Conley will be FA and Jazz will have 40-45 million to spend next summer - yeah, I know it's not very realistic target since about 25 teams will have capspace to offer him max, but still putting it out there as an option) or in a trade so Exum won't be pressured to perform right away at extremely high level coming back from an ACL reconstruction and so he can be eased back into the team while learning from a vet PG? Do we get a stop-gap PG next season? Or even this season? Should we be thinking about moving Hayward if he gives any indications that he will likely explore FA and won't be returning to Utah before his contract expires so we can at least get something for him? Those are all question that the FO would need to consider.

 

[Keefe]

I need to change my boxers after hearing the notion of Conley signing here.

We could be so ****ing good with him at the point. He will be 29 though next October. Not sure how to feel about that.

 

[karl malone]

^Agreed, stitches. This is a difficult situation for the FO, who now either needs to put even more resources into the PG position (on top of #5, #14, & #21 picks) in order to compete & hopefully increase our chances of retaining Hayward long-term or stand pat & hope that our current PG's are enough to get us into the playoffs &/or that Exum returns (at least close) to 100%. I think moving Hayward (given that the return is good enough to make it worth doing) if the team doesn't appear playoff caliber by this upcoming trade deadline (so as to maximize his trade value) may need to be seriously considered. Glad DL is the one making these decisions, as they are difficult ones & vital to the long-term future of this team.

 

[stitches]

Mike Conley is kind of a pipe-dream since there will be a ton of teams willing to pay him max or close to max. On the other hand the option I'm beginning to like more and more and more is George Hill. He has 2 more years on his contract and will be perfect stop-gap/vet option for us. I liked him before Exum's injury and I absolutely love him right now. I think if we can get him for a first rounder and Trey Burke or something of that sort, I'd do it.