How long are you going to tollerate losing?

[Dr. Jones]

Hmm.. may be I have too much of a conscience.. after all, nobody forced CHA to sign Al Jefferson... lol.. it's their choice I guess.

What?

 

[gregbroncs]

Well yeah there is a huge difference in that sense, but the main goal is exactly the same - get a top #10 lotto pick.

You can talk about us wanting to give young guys experience, etc, but then GSW also gave Klay plenty of time to play, same with Jenkins, etc.


At the end of the day though, it's all the pick. I'm not complaining though, it's just how the system is set up. It is what it is.

Not only that but if we lose we don't **** somebody else over. We are not tanking to screw another team out of a pick. They threw games to insure they kept their pick. We will lose because we are going to be young. But they will not intentionally lose just to get a better pick.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Not only that but if we lose we don't **** somebody else over. We are not tanking to screw another team out of a pick. They threw games to insure they kept their pick. We will lose because we are going to be young. But they will not intentionally lose just to get a better pick.

Thank you for being an additional rational thinker here..

 

[Stoked]

It kinda cracks me up everytime I think about how mad we were when GSW tanked hard to try and grab Barnes....


But now we'll be using their players (Jefferson, Bierdrins) to tank hard ourselves to try and grab Jabari...


hahaha... oh the irony...

Irony my ***. What GSTankers did is a pathetic sham and in my eyes puts a lasting stain on that organization. They lost on purpose. They made in game decisions with the goal of losing.

Utah is assembling a team centered around its youth and is very young. However they will go out there and try to win. There is a huge, huge difference.

 

[mellow]

How long will I tollerate losing?


40 something years now, and I'm still going. What is one more year and one more disappointment?

 

[green]

It kinda cracks me up everytime I think about how mad we were when GSW tanked hard to try and grab Barnes....


But now we'll be using their players (Jefferson, Bierdrins) to tank hard ourselves to try and grab Jabari...


hahaha... oh the irony...

That's why I never banged on GS for tanking. It is what you have to do nowadays.

 

[green]

GSW purposefully threw games. Jazz are developing young players but I don't think it means we will be trying to lose. Can't see the Jazz trying to lose games the way Golden State did.

There's a big difference between rebuilding and trying to develop young players and tanking for a higher draft pick.

So, GS just did what SA did...sit your slightly injured players, developed their younger players....we aren't any different.

 

[green]

I respectfully disagree.
It is not all about the pick. It's all about evaluation. The FO needs to know what they've got so they can make smart decisions in the draft and/or FA.

How about it's both?

 

[The Midnight]

Not only that but if we lose we don't **** somebody else over. We are not tanking to screw another team out of a pick. They threw games to insure they kept their pick. We will lose because we are going to be young. But they will not intentionally lose just to get a better pick.

Yeah but I'm sure when Lindsey was selling this idea to the owners, one of the major "Positives" would be that we would likely get a decent pick next year.

 

[The Midnight]

That's why I never banged on GS for tanking. It is what you have to do nowadays.

Thank the Lord somebody finally gets this.

 

[The Midnight]

So, GS just did what SA did...sit your slightly injured players, developed their younger players....we aren't any different.

How about it's both?

Yep, and yep.

 

[mhindy]

Thank the Lord somebody finally gets this.

All he's saying is that trying to actually see what young guys can do is different than playing 5 PF lineups.

 

[green]

I LOVE that people think we aren't any different than GS. In Bill Simmons' eyes, we are the same. He tweeted that out, and some people have that in their sigs. We are tanking. If we weren't tanking, we would have resigned Millsap, gotten a good backup pg in here and definitely would NOT have taken Jefferson and Beidrens from GS. We would have "reloaded", as KOC says, around Hayward, Favors and Kanter. Instead, we stripped down the team, and are turning it over to those three with no help.

Anyways, back to the OP, I would accept a horrible season next year. That means after this year, our roster looks like this:

PG - Top 10 pick
SG - Top 10 pick
SF - Top 10 pick
PF - Top 3 pick
C - Top 3 pick

After next year, I fully expect the Jazz to go out, not tank and sign bad bench players, but go after good role players and I expect to be in the playoffs. Hayward, Favors will have 4 season, Kanter 3. Those three had BETTER be able to get you to the playoffs or the Jazz blew those picks. Toss in Burke in his second year, a good bench AND another top 10 pick? We had better be in the playoffs. Even if it is an 8 seed.

 

[mhindy]

I LOVE that people think we aren't any different than GS. In Bill Simmons' eyes, we are the same. He tweeted that out, and some people have that in their sigs. We are tanking. If we weren't tanking, we would have resigned Millsap, gotten a good backup pg in here and definitely would NOT have taken Jefferson and Beidrens from GS. We would have "reloaded", as KOC says, around Hayward, Favors and Kanter. Instead, we stripped down the team, and are turning it over to those three with no help.

Anyways, back to the OP, I would accept a horrible season next year. That means after this year, our roster looks like this:

PG - Top 10 pick
SG - Top 10 pick
SF - Top 10 pick
PF - Top 3 pick
C - Top 3 pick

After next year, I fully expect the Jazz to go out, not tank and sign bad bench players, but go after good role players and I expect to be in the playoffs. Hayward, Favors will have 4 season, Kanter 3. Those three had BETTER be able to get you to the playoffs or the Jazz blew those picks. Toss in Burke in his second year, a good bench AND another top 10 pick? We had better be in the playoffs. Even if it is an 8 seed.

I agree with your progression. At that point, it should be much more about actual roster building than drafting more high end talent. Getting the right role players is the difference between being a good team with a nice core and a great team that actually competes.

 

[TheStormofWar]

There will be growing pains and we will suck for a few years. Have to accept that as part of the process.

 

[The Midnight]

I LOVE that people think we aren't any different than GS. In Bill Simmons' eyes, we are the same. He tweeted that out, and some people have that in their sigs. We are tanking. If we weren't tanking, we would have resigned Millsap, gotten a good backup pg in here and definitely would NOT have taken Jefferson and Beidrens from GS. We would have "reloaded", as KOC says, around Hayward, Favors and Kanter. Instead, we stripped down the team, and are turning it over to those three with no help.

Yes absolutely. You either "reload" or "rebuild" (in the strongest sense of the word).


"Reload" is what KOC tried to do over the past couple of years - the idea is that we had enough core talent, we just needed additional complementary talent to become contenders.

What we're doing now is going back 1 step and "rebuild" - obviously Lindsey realized that there isn't a sure-fire All Star within our core talent, and we need to "tank it" one more year to grab a Wiggins/Jabari/Harrison to become perennial contenders. To me GSW "tanked it" one last year in order to get Barnes. I think they now believe they have sufficient core-talent to be contenders, hence to deal to give us '14 and '17 first rounders.

 

[green]

There will be growing pains and we will suck for a few years. Have to accept that as part of the process.

I don't agree with this at all. The Jazz are shooting for a high draft pick this year. Their moves scream this. Like I posted earlier, if they get a top 10 pick this year, this means that they will have 6-7 LOTTERY PICKS on this team. The 2014-2015 season should be a playoff season. There is no excuse for that, UNLESS the FO screwed up on the Favors and Kanters picks.

 

[The Thriller]

We've been tolerating it for 3 years without hope of obtaining an awesome draft pick.

I doubt this year will make us all sad and depressed. It's sort of what we've been asking for. Demanding. We need to rebuild.

 

[Stoked]

I LOVE that people think we aren't any different than GS. In Bill Simmons' eyes, we are the same. He tweeted that out, and some people have that in their sigs. We are tanking. If we weren't tanking, we would have resigned Millsap, gotten a good backup pg in here and definitely would NOT have taken Jefferson and Beidrens from GS. We would have "reloaded", as KOC says, around Hayward, Favors and Kanter. Instead, we stripped down the team, and are turning it over to those three with no help.

Anyways, back to the OP, I would accept a horrible season next year. That means after this year, our roster looks like this:

PG - Top 10 pick
SG - Top 10 pick
SF - Top 10 pick
PF - Top 3 pick
C - Top 3 pick

After next year, I fully expect the Jazz to go out, not tank and sign bad bench players, but go after good role players and I expect to be in the playoffs. Hayward, Favors will have 4 season, Kanter 3. Those three had BETTER be able to get you to the playoffs or the Jazz blew those picks. Toss in Burke in his second year, a good bench AND another top 10 pick? We had better be in the playoffs. Even if it is an 8 seed.

And I love that some people are deluded enough to be unable to see the difference. Jazz are building on their youth and planning for the future. But they will go out and try to win every game. Obviously they wont but they will try.

GS on the other hand was going out and intentionally trying to lose games. They made specific in game adjustments in an effort to lose.

There is a difference. I don't give a damn who tells me it is the same. It is not, period.

 

[Dr. Jones]

And I love that some people are deluded enough to be unable to see the difference. Jazz are building on their youth and planning for the future. But they will go out and try to win every game. Obviously they wont but they will try.

GS on the other hand was going out and intentionally trying to lose games. They made specific in game adjustments in an effort to lose.

Their is a differnce. I don't give a damn who tells me it is the same. It is not, period.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stoked again.