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I Don't Blame The Players

sip said:
The problem now is that guys have looked so bad that they have lost significant trade value. Conley at mid season was an actual asset that could have brought something back. Now he is likely viewed as a negative asset. There isn't a single contending team that would view him as an upgrade as a starting pg and he costs a fortune to be a backup. Someone mentioned that the 3rd year on his contract is partially guaranteed. Does anyone know what that number is? You look down our roster and suddenly players either have no trade value or have lost a significant amount of trade value in Mitchell and Gobert. That is one of the reason why I think may end up bringing most of this core back simply because we can't get rid of them. No one is going to want Royce, Conley or Gay with what they are being paid. Bogey probably has some value. Clarkson we can probably salary dump but I doubt anyone gives us much of an asset back for him. The best move may be to roll it back and try to regain trade value but the issue there is that if we are winning then gm's and owners never have the balls to sell high.
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Don - we only trade him if he wants to go

Rudy - we only trade him if we get a good deal and/or Rudy wants to go/split with Don/ etc.

Conley- should be traded unless he has negative trade value

Bojan - has value and should probably be traded so we can improve defense and/or athleticism

Clarkson- should only be traded if we go complete rebuild

Royce - bad value - should only be traded if we go complete rebuild

Juancho - keep. Seems like a solid player.

Rudy Gay - take anything expiring for him. Don't dump an asset to trade



Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Don't blame the player, blame the game.
 
sip said:
The problem now is that guys have looked so bad that they have lost significant trade value. Conley at mid season was an actual asset that could have brought something back. Now he is likely viewed as a negative asset. There isn't a single contending team that would view him as an upgrade as a starting pg and he costs a fortune to be a backup. Someone mentioned that the 3rd year on his contract is partially guaranteed. Does anyone know what that number is? You look down our roster and suddenly players either have no trade value or have lost a significant amount of trade value in Mitchell and Gobert. That is one of the reason why I think may end up bringing most of this core back simply because we can't get rid of them. No one is going to want Royce, Conley or Gay with what they are being paid. Bogey probably has some value. Clarkson we can probably salary dump but I doubt anyone gives us much of an asset back for him. The best move may be to roll it back and try to regain trade value but the issue there is that if we are winning then gm's and owners never have the balls to sell high.
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like it's scary for those who actually believe that we have a competitive squad for championship contention.

the harsh reality is that next season this same group of players will probably be fighting for a play-in spot next season or missing the postseason entirely.

Minny's gonna get better. NOLA's gonna get better. Clippers' gonna get healthy. Denver's gonna get healthy. These things are all gonna happen while we getting older and worse.

Even now none of our staters besides Rudy/DM can guarantee themselves a starting spot on most of the playoff teams. We are basically starting guys who otherwise would've been bench players on top level teams(Royce/Conley/Bogey) and our bench players are filled with rejects from other teams(House/Juancho/NAW/Paschall/Whiteside).

So our guys don't have much of trade value because of their contracts. Yes. But that's only 50% true. The other 50% being our guys just aren't that good to begin with. Like getting walked all over by Jalen ****ing Brunson, that shouldn't happen to a real playoff team with real playoff players. it's more obvious if you just watch any of the 7 other playoff series and see how their players play defense. the talent gap is just too much.
 
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Just a stupid question? What if we change only the coach? Can this team perform with a good coach? I still thinking that this team have great talent, just the conductor is bad.... with a different routine, mental preparation, maybe it could work?
 
It's insane how much Lopo moved the goal post on his overall views this year. He went from "only the playoffs matter and I judge players based on that" to "I dont blame the players for sucking in the post-season" just because his boi Donnie having it rough.

It's so rich
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Just a stupid question? What if we change only the coach? Can this team perform with a good coach? I still thinking that this team have great talent, just the conductor is bad.... with a different routine, mental preparation, maybe it could work?
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Quin is a top 5 coach without a doubt in my mind. Maybe his message has gotten "stale" or whatever happens, but maybe a change could be good. You have to make damn ****ing sure tho you are getting another elite level coach or it's a lateral move at best/terrible move at worst.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Just a stupid question? What if we change only the coach? Can this team perform with a good coach? I still thinking that this team have great talent, just the conductor is bad.... with a different routine, mental preparation, maybe it could work?
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Could a new coach make the current roster a contender? No

Could a new coach make us better? Yes by being a stronger leader and making some tough benching decisions from time to time. I think playing some youth and challenging guys (Don and Rudy included) to do things differently could help us when the playoffs arrive.

We thought we had options with Paschall and Rudy Gay, but until we have a decent small ball option for the playoffs, we're pretenders. Rudy is a unicorn, but even he can't stay on the court at all times. Gotta be able to go small.
 
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Let's hope for a kind of revolt at game 6...im not optimistic but will be so happy if i'm wrong.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Just a stupid question? What if we change only the coach? Can this team perform with a good coach? I still thinking that this team have great talent, just the conductor is bad.... with a different routine, mental preparation, maybe it could work?
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a new coach like Brad Stevens will be good.
 
Got the sense that bogey laid it all out there emotionally on g4 and then mentally dropped in g5.
 
Agree with most of this and said something similar in the last game thread. Front office needs to be cleared out. Ainge being brought it means Smith might already understand this, even if he understandably wanted to give the team another shot in case the Clippers loss was a fluke like we all wanted to believe—obviously, it wasn’t. This roster can not compete with the best teams in the nba, it can’t even compete with the pretty good teams in the nba. Lindsay and Zanick, along with the coaching staff, built and programmed a gimmick roster. It worked for a while. But once teams figured us out, there was no putting humpty-dumpty back together again.

Sad thing is there’s really no way to fix it without trading two of the best players the jazz have ever had and starting the rebuild. I just don’t see how we can do a quick rebuild around either one of them. We’re ****ed.

I was optimistic about a lot of the moves the front office made. They were going for it, and I was excited. If I was in the front office, I would deserve to be fired too. That’s the way it goes. The small-to-medium mistakes really cost us. This could have been the greatest era of jazz basketball. I think we’re all look back at the Mitchell and Rudy era and wish we had put the right guys around them. Wish we had put size around them. Wish we hadn’t ****ed around and let Hayward get out of his contract early. Wish we hadn’t blown our cap space and trade pieces on Conley. Wish we hadn’t wasted our cap and a first round pick on the Favors and Gay signings. Wish we hadn’t wasted our draft picks. Man.
 
I strongly disagree with a rebuild when it MAY be possible to turn things around with a soft rebuild. Why not at least try it? Why get rid of say Donovan if we could bring in a few younger, longer, more athletic players to play with him?

I love Rudy but…I’m not sure your highest paid player on your team should be a big unless that big is elite offensively ala a jokic, embid or the Greek freak. I would looove Siakem on this team or someone similar and a large point guard over Conley. Moving Conley would really help.
 
Max Porter said:
I strongly disagree with a rebuild when it MAY be possible to turn things around with a soft rebuild. Why not at least try it? Why get rid of say Donovan if we could bring in a few younger, longer, more athletic players to play with him?

I love Rudy but…I’m not sure your highest paid player on your team should be a big unless that big is elite offensively ala a jokic, embid or the Greek freak. I would looove Siakem on this team or someone similar and a large point guard over Conley. Moving Conley would really help.
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We have really been trying a soft rebuild for going on 4 years now. It isn't yielding much. Unless Ainge is vastly superior to anything the FO has been doing, I don't see that getting us anywhere. We swapped an unplayable Niang for a Gay that, well just doesn't play, for example. That's at best a push, possibly a downgrade all things considered. The only move we made that really had an impact was bringing in Whiteside, and we will likely lose him unless he just loves it here, but the way things have been going I doubt that. We also brought in House, you could say to replace Oni, so that is a decided upgrade, but then we saw Royce take 5 steps back this year, and any edge that gave us is now gone.

We do have some players with promise, JB, Juancho, Paschall, but the other problem with a soft rebuild is that the coach will actually find a way to incorporate what we have available to us to get the best he can out of his team, but we know Quin will do Quin things and only Quin things, so unless the coach is changed it really won't matter which fringe pieces we keep swapping out, we won't get any further along.

We have been to the ceiling for this team. Unless something major or at least mid-major is changed, we won't get any further along just putting shiny new tires on a car that needs to have half its spark plugs replaced.
 
I love the idea of a soft rebuild around Donovan… look all we have to do is turn our flawed star with a big contract into similar but better replacement talent, we can also flip our aging guys for younger guys that are better, we don’t have picks but we will find a plethora of young undrafted talent that will immediately impact winning. Donovan definitely will extend his contract cuz he loves Utah and he certainly won’t ask for a trade after a year or two of .500 basketball. We got this!!!

We are headed for the Al Jefferson retool year… should be fun.
 
Max Porter said:
I strongly disagree with a rebuild when it MAY be possible to turn things around with a soft rebuild. Why not at least try it? Why get rid of say Donovan if we could bring in a few younger, longer, more athletic players to play with him?

I love Rudy but…I’m not sure your highest paid player on your team should be a big unless that big is elite offensively ala a jokic, embid or the Greek freak. I would looove Siakem on this team or someone similar and a large point guard over Conley. Moving Conley would really help.
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Good post. No title team has been built around an offensively limited center since maybe Bill Russell.

Seriously though, we have a system on both ends of the floor built around Rudy or Rudy light when he's on the bench.
We have a business/franchise/owners who might want to build around the most marketable player we have had in a long time or maybe ever.

If it hasn't worked built around the offensively limited center AND it makes more business sense to build around the marketable guard, then why not build around the marketable guard?
 
According to Tony Jones, the Jazz want to be "Playoff Good" next year, so it looks highly unlikely a blow-up happens.
 
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