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"In retrospect, King won the Williams' trade in a landslide."

Hey Borat, can you explain to me why NJ didn't improve (in the standings) after the trade, and we got better? I'm looking forward to you really selling me on Brook Lopez.
 
margodydek said:
Hey Borat, can you explain to me why NJ didn't improve (in the standings) after the trade, and we got better? I'm looking forward to you really selling me on Brook Lopez.
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Not to mention the Jazz are in the west, and were an eighth seed last year.
The equivalent to about a 5th or 6th seed in the east.

The Jazz went from no playoffs (in a half D-Will, half Harris season), to playoff contention in the west over one season.
Doesn't sound like half a bad trade to me.

The only trade that puts NJ in playoff contention at all is the Joe Johnson trade.
The Williams trade lost them more then they'll probably ever get back.

The evidence of this is the horrendous Gerald Wallace deal, the even worse Kris Humphries deal, and the fact that they keep holding onto scrubs like Brook Lopez.
 
Borat said:
Eric may be Robin to batman, but Favors and Kanter look like regular folks. My point was that unlike KOC, who jumped the gun and got average players, NO actually got some proven great young talent for their superstar. And yes, NO still lost in that trade, but not in a one way landslide fashion, like King raped KOC.
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There were two ways to do a Deron trade:
1) Follow the Denver model and get a few good, but not great players. Was/Is Denver better than Utah. Yes, but now what? They're stuck in mid-playoff territory with no real chance of contending unless they cut payroll and then sign some impact FA's.
2) Go for broke with a rebuild and trade for assets. The key piece is obviously Favors. It's very difficult to get quality bigs, and if one comes on the market, you have to overpay by a LOT (Asik, Nen, McGee, just to name a few). Will Favors ever be a superstar? Probably not. But he's already shown great defensive promise. Plus, they get (at worst) a serviceable center in Kanter. Harris netted Marvin Williams, who at worst is either a quality SF or a salary slot that can be used for a FA and the GS draft pick is still TBD.

Did Brooklyn "win" the trade? Certainly didn't the first 1 1/2 years (zero playoffs for Brooklyn vs. 1 for Utah). Will they this season? Probably. Nets should have a 50-55 win year. But welcome to luxury tax hell, Brooklyn. No biggie for Prokhorov. He doesn't care about paying tax through the end of the contracts for Johnson and Wallace. But let's see what happens when those contracts are up. If the Nets haven't won a championship, they'll have to play for a year with Deron + scrubs as I doubt even Prokhorov wants to pay the "repeat offender" tax, which uses a 2 1/2 x multiple to calculate the tax.

And let's see how Favors, Kanter, the GS pick and either Marvin, or the player we get for his salary slot turn out. Given Utah's situation (small market, owners not billionaires), I'd take an all-star quality player + three other solid starters/6th men for a MAX PG.
 
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motown, i think you meant "deron trade"...

aside from that, i agree with just about everything there. except that i'm not ready to say favors won't become an all-NBA level player. he has gotten better since being here, he's starting to play more confident, and he just hit a ripe old 21 years of age. i realize gordon is young, too -- he'll turn 24 later this year -- but i think his ceiling is already a little better defined.

put another way, i'd rather have a package built around favors than a package built around gordon. if either of them is going to become an unstoppable force someday, it's derrick.
 
MoTown16 said:
There were two ways to do a Devin trade:
1) Follow the Denver model and get a few good, but not great players. Was/Is Denver better than Utah. Yes, but now what? They're stuck in mid-playoff territory with no real chance of contending unless they cut payroll and then sign some impact FA's.
2) Go for broke with a rebuild and trade for assets. The key piece is obviously Favors. It's very difficult to get quality bigs, and if one comes on the market, you have to overpay by a LOT (Asik, Nen, McGee, just to name a few). Will Favors ever be a superstar? Probably not. But he's already shown great defensive promise. Plus, they get (at worst) a serviceable center in Kanter. Harris netted Marvin Williams, who at worst is either a quality SF or a salary slot that can be used for a FA and the GS draft pick is still TBD.

Did Brooklyn "win" the trade? Certainly didn't the first 1 1/2 years (zero playoffs for Brooklyn vs. 1 for Utah). Will they this season? Probably. Nets should have a 50-55 win year. But welcome to luxury tax hell, Brooklyn. No biggie for Prokhorov. He doesn't care about paying tax through the end of the contracts for Johnson and Wallace. But let's see what happens when those contracts are up. If the Nets haven't won a championship, they'll have to play for a year with Deron + scrubs as I doubt even Prokhorov wants to pay the "repeat offender" tax, which uses a 2 1/2 x multiple to calculate the tax.

And let's see how Favors, Kanter, the GS pick and either Marvin, or the player we get for his salary slot turn out. Given Utah's situation (small market, owners not billionaires), I'd take an all-star quality player + three other solid starters/6th men for a MAX PG.
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Damnit MoTown, I want to rep you again but can't.:rolleyes:
 
theNBAnerd said:
motown, i think you meant "deron trade"...

aside from that, i agree with just about everything there. except that i'm not ready to say favors won't become an all-NBA level player. he has gotten better since being here, he's starting to play more confident, and he just hit a ripe old 21 years of age. i realize gordon is young, too -- he'll turn 24 later this year -- but i think his ceiling is already a little better defined.

put another way, i'd rather have a package built around favors than a package built around gordon. if either of them is going to become an unstoppable force someday, it's derrick.
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Thanks, I did mean Deron.
Favors reaching the level of Deron (who at one point was arguably the best at his position) might be a stretch. But even if Favors just averages an efficient 16/10, but is a great defensive player, I'd be very happy. Teams without quality bigs have virtually no chance at a championship. I realize Miami is an exception as Bosh isn't exactly a beast. But LeBron and Wade make up for that.

Gordon is in no way a Jordan or Kobe (or even a Wade). It's ridiculous to pay him MAX money.
 
Neg rep to anybody who hasn't put Borat on ignore by this point. It makes no sense to let the lunatic fringe drive the discussion.
 
BRIAN T. SMITH
Favors isn't thinking about or concerned with staring for Jazz. Will prepare like normal. Just wants "to play."
ABOUT 23 MINUTES AGO
 
Favors said he hasn't really paid attention to Jazz's offseason moves but does think Utah's gotten better.
ABOUT 24 MINUTES AGO
 
BRIAN T. SMITH
Favors is taking time off after Olympic practice. P3 at end of August. Will ramp up in September.
ABOUT 26 MINUTES AGO
 
How can anybody evaluate this trade until Favors has a few more years in the league? If Favors reaches or is close to his potential then it would've been a fair trade with just Dwill and Favors.
 
orangello said:
The Nets won becuase they will soon have a nearly $100 million payroll. Yea, they are the winners.
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....plus, there's no guarantee the Nets will even be a playoff team next year, let alone a contender! And no guarantee they will beat us head to head, at home or away!
 
carolinajazz said:
....plus, there's no guarantee the Nets will even be a playoff team next year, let alone a contender! And no guarantee they will beat us head to head, at home or away!
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The Jazz should dominate the paint vs the Nets. I think the Jazz have a good chance at taking at least one of the games.
 
Not that anybody is going to change anybodies mind in this I just wanted to say that I think the sticking point is Borat doesn't like what the Jazz got back, period, never mind peoples opinions on Dwill and how he has played thus far and in the future.

One thing is he's saying he likes what NO got better and saying the national media heads say LAC got the better deal, also take into account it's LA and he got paired up with Griffin that makes for a great story and exciting play. Also a lot of the media felt the other LA team got spurned when the NOH owner (Stern) decided he didn't like that trade and thought he could get better, which IMO he did. But it left a sour taste in lots of peoples mouths which effects what they would say about NOH future trades.

With that said you use the national media to support your argument but ignore the national media when they say Utah did well in the trade and that DWill was most likely leaving and they avoided the Melo, Dwight circus. Now you can't really win a trade when you lose your best player but to say they lost in a land slide is ridiculous and you have to judge it individually at the time what the team got out of it and what was available and what they hoped to achieve by the trade and that's why Utah did very well for itself.
 
TheSilencer1313 said:
The Jazz will beat them both times.... because have you seen how much D-will sucks over the last year and a half!??
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I'm pretty sure the Jazz will win at home but they can suck on the road, especially the east coast trips. Either way, I think it's up to the Jazz in these games. The Nets are going to be so dysfunctional.
 
Nasty Style said:
I'm pretty sure the Jazz will win at home but they can suck on the road, especially the east coast trips. Either way, I think it's up to the Jazz in these games. The Nets are going to be so dysfunctional.
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Yeah no doubt.
We'll see if Deron can start deferring to Joe Johnson the way he's been shooting.
If not, then they'll be way disfunctional.
 
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